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  1. James Richter's Avatar
    Let's look at this another way: later on in 2006, the Twins enjoyed a 42 game stretch (about 25% of the season) in which they went 34-8. Had that stretch begun with the 1st game of the year instead of the 59th, would you have expected them to keep it up for 162 games, finishing with 130 wins, making them the best team in the history of baseball? I don't think that would have been reasonable.

    The Orioles are on pace to win 110 games - think that's going to happen? On this date last year, Cleveland was on pace to win 110 games - how'd that turn out?

    The point is, over a six-month season, teams usually win about the number of games they're supposed to win. This team is not supposed to lose 100 games. They will if they don't play better, but they are talented enough to play better. Demand that they play better, and give them a few more weeks to show that they can. There will be plenty of time to blow things up in July if they don't.
  2. glunn's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by gatormn
    So True there Righty83
    I think the Twins will go though the worst season in the history of the Twins this year.
    Off hand I'm not sure what the worst record was but I do believe they have the lack of ammo to go for 110 losses
    Last year you would of thought they won the pennant on the last game by winning to avoid 100 losses but this year they are going to do it.
    Look at the bright side -- with 110 losses the Twins should get the #1 draft pick.
  3. gatormn's Avatar
    So True there Righty83
    I think the Twins will go though the worst season in the history of the Twins this year.
    Off hand I'm not sure what the worst record was but I do believe they have the lack of ammo to go for 110 losses
    Last year you would of thought they won the pennant on the last game by winning to avoid 100 losses but this year they are going to do it.
  4. Mchans24's Avatar
    Your forgetting one person. His name is Johan Santana, he is no longer with the twins. There isn't a pitcher on the roster who is half that good.
  5. righty8383's Avatar
    So everytime the Twins get off to a crappy start we can just go back to '06 for hope? Forgive me if I'm not so optimistic. Do you see Justin Morneau turning it up and having an MVP year? I don't. Do we have an ace that can win a CY Young? Not even close. It goes on. The Twins got off to a bad start in '06 but they had the pieces to get back in the race making it one of the most exciting seasons of baseball I've ever watched. This team does not have those pieces so stop kidding yourself.
    I don’t think the current is roster is necessarily a contender, but they’re better than they’ve shown
    This may be true about the offense, but the pitching is just as bad as what we've seen. Worst starting staff in all of baseball with little hope on the farm
  6. El Guapo's Avatar
    There is one thing you're not factoring into your comparison: The 2006 Twins were near the bottom of the major leagues in payroll and the 2012 Twins are in the upper 1/3 range. You should never under any circumstances (barring about 7 or 8 major injuries) be the worst team in baseball with a $100 million payroll. That means that either A, Terry Ryan did a horrible job in the offseason assembling this team (and don't give me the "he came in late excuse" because he had all offseason), or B. The coaching staff are not doing their jobs. I'm more of a believer that this season, and it'll be ugly after 162 games, should be blamed about 80% on Terry Ryan, 10% on the coaching staff, and 5% each on the ownership and the roster. People can blame the pohlads for not shelling out $150 million but the foolish ways our front office spend money we'd probably still be in last. You can only put so much blame on the coaching staff because they can't go out and play and have to make do with the lack of talent dealt to them by the GM. However, Gardy is responsible for putting players on this roster in the best spots for them to succeed and using the Liriano example of continuing to march this train wreck out to start every 5th game is baffling. Either send him to the pen, trade him(laughable), send him down, or just outright release him and give his spot to duensing, diamond, manship, swarzak, or ANYONE else who at least knows how to pitch because Liriano doesn't. Which brings me to the actual roster. You can't put a lot of blame on the players unless they're not trying and I don't believe that to be the case. I don't belong in the major leagues but if the Twins want to pay me to help fill this roster I wouldn't argue with them just as many players who shouldn't be here can't be blamed for being here. Again, the front office has to do a much better job evaluating strengths and weaknesses, talent, and what it takes to build a winning organization. Terry Ryan was best at picking up scrap heap players and trading for prospects when we had a $20 million payroll. Now he has $100 million and even though $38 of that is tied up into 2 players that continue to be a monumental waste of money, he still has 3 times the money to play with that he used to but has no clue how to use it wisely. Someone has to be held accountable for this season just as Bill Smith was the fallguy for last year. Minnesota sports have pushed their fans to the point that we just hope for mediocrity now because they've all been so horrible we have to lower expectations to that point while letting owners and GM's off the hook for their stupidity and inabiltiy to do there jobs.
  7. PeanutsFromHeaven's Avatar
    Awesome comparison. Hope springs...well...maybe not eternal, but much more than it did before reading this post!
  8. TwinsGuy55422's Avatar
    I do agree that they can devote the majority of their resources to pitching next year. I think it will be interesting to see what they do with Baker, Pavano, Liriano, and Pavano all possibly being gone. I do like Hendriks and hope to see him continue his development this year. Hopefully Gibson will have a positive recovery from his TJ surgery. With some of the above mentioned pitchers coming off the books, we should be able to go after some free agents as well.
  9. Fire Dan Gladden's Avatar
    I understand the premise: he has pitched his way into trouble, give him the freedom to pitch his way out. There are some flaws with this:

    - Liriano rarely goes 7 innings, even on his good days. Considering he is usually at 100 pitches in the 5th or 6th, that could be an issue.
    - Liriano's mental issues are due to him letting the small things get to him. One hit turns into 6 runs. Unlike Radke, who always gave up a couple of runs in the first, then settled down to throw 7-8 good innings, Liriano does not know how to right the ship while it is sinking. Letting him sink may make is mental makeup worse.
    - Twins fans are so fed up with him, one good game will not stop the skepticism or the booing. Neither would one good month.

    THe bottom line is that Liriano needs a fresh start somewhere else. He may turn it around and become a solid pitcher but (like Kyle Lohse) it won't be here.
  10. nokomismod's Avatar
    I just don't have any confidence in him right now. I would argue that Mays had good stuff and decent control. Sometimes Mays had problems throwing strikes because his ball had a lot of movement. Liriano right now cannot command his fastball at all. I have to think the players aren't feeling very confident on the days that he pitches either.
  11. ashburyjohn's Avatar
    On Sunday morning in Tampa, tell Liriano that hes going to throw 7 innings. He can do it in 90 pitches or 150, but hes not coming out of there until he gets at least 21 outs.

    One caveat to this. You can't bluff, and you have to have a Plan B just in case. If you are at the point of putting him into the bullpen with one more failure, then this strategem is as good a shot as any. If he has to come out after 4.1 innings anyway, then he's banished to the bullpen; if that wouldn't be your move, then you can't try this ultimatum.

    Since I'm ready to put him in the pen, I like your idea.
  12. TwinsGuy55422's Avatar
    Great analysis. I would also like to mention the possibility for in-season moves if things are going reasonably well. That could lead to some runs created and/or runs prevented.
  13. PeanutsFromHeaven's Avatar
    Really nicely done. I think it's reasonable to assume that last year was out of the norm for the Twins--assuming a return to the mean it can easily make .500; but I doubt that Gardy or the veterans (Mauer, Morneau, Baker, Span) will accept just "average"--which can help boost them to contention.
  14. Thrylos's Avatar
    This is good stuff... And I suspect that if someone was doing a similar analysis for the 2008 team (that won 88) based on the 2007 results, the conclusion would be similar: a .500 team at best (and most teams are .500 teams on paper.) What happened in 08 and can happen again in 12 is that a few players stepped up and exceeded expectations. And if that happens, a 82 win team, easily becomes a 90 win team...
    Updated 02-25-2012 at 09:19 AM by Thrylos
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