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  • In Terry I Trust

    If you were surprised in any way by return in the Denard Span trade, you shouldn't have been. Terry Ryan told us this was coming four months ago.

    Back in July, with the trade deadline approaching, Ryan spoke about his approach:

    As desperate as the Twins are to find starting pitching for 2013, a Liriano or Denard Span trade might not even address that specific need. Speaking only generally Thursday, GM Terry Ryan said, "When you're out there looking around, I think it's important you're always looking for the high-ceiling guy, whether he's major league-ready or whether he's in A-ball."

    To focus solely on the 2013 rotation "would be a terrible mistake," Ryan said.

    Ryan said the best target might be a Class A pitcher, who's further from the majors.

    "You can go get a marginal Triple-A guy who might be here next year," he said. "Are you going to be satisfied passing up a high-ceiling guy? I wouldn't be, but everybody has their own philosophy on that."
    The general manager's recent quotes after trading Span to the Nationals for Alex Meyer reflect the same mindset:

    "This guy, even though he's been in pro ball a short time, has first-round status," Ryan said. "He's out of the University of Kentucky, highly touted. These guys are hard to get, and if you are going to get them, it's going to be in the low to mid-minors. Once they get up to Double A or Triple A, they are almost impossible to get."
    This is what I love about Terry Ryan, particularly in contrast to his tight-lipped predecessor, whose initials were fittingly "B.S." With TR, you know what you're getting. While I don't necessarily always agree with his methods, I trust the man.

    That's why I feel good about this trade. Given that the Twins were known to be talking to the Nationals back in July, when Ryan was describing a "high-ceiling guy" who might be in A-ball, there's a good chance he was targeting Meyer who fits that bill exactly. (Worth noting that Meyer could not technically be traded then as he was less than a year removed from signing, but could have been shipped as a PTBNL.)


    Back around the deadline, a source (from the Nats?) told Jon Heyman that the Twins were "asking a ton" for Span, who didn't end up getting moved.

    Many people seem disappointed – or at best unenthused – about the return for Span. But it seems clear that one side finally relinquished in this long-time haggling over the center fielder, and the timing would suggest it was Washington's Mike Rizzo. After all, just days earlier he'd watched division rival Atlanta sign center fielder B.J. Upton to a huge five-year deal. That's pressure.

    My take is that Ryan coveted Meyer highly and the Nationals were very reluctant to give him up, even in a one-for-one swap that brought back a very valuable established player. And why not? Meyer has a first-round pedigree, a fastball that registers in the high-90s and a physical build that could portend dominance. Legitimate top-of-the-rotation potential.

    No prospect is a sure thing, which is the scary part of all this, but if Meyer develops even into a quality No. 3, six cost-controlled seasons of his service at a time where the price of free agent pitching is escalating will make this a knockout victory. If he turns into a true front line guy, Ryan's trade will be a success of franchise-altering proportions.

    Span was a largely underrated player and the Twins will miss him, but their long-term outfield depth made him relatively expendable. Ryan could have probably flipped Span for multiple lesser prospects or an ordinary major-league talent, but instead turned in his chip for the high-upside play.

    Just as he's said he would all along.
    This article was originally published in blog: In Terry I Trust started by Nick Nelson
    Comments 146 Comments
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      Upton is a below average defensive CF who hits some HRs and steals some bases but he strikes out a ton and has trouble getting on base or hitting for average.

      If given a choice between Span and Upton straight up, I'd take Span...when considering what they'll both be paid the next three seasons, it's Span in a freakin landslide.
      Dude, Upton is a significantly better player then Span, just take a look at the upside and his last 3 years of offensive production vs Span. Also, not sure where you are getting this Upton is below average defensively thing. Upton actually rates as above average according to ever defensive metric out there. Also, Upton doesn't have the injury concerns Span has and has shown significant power spikes as he has started to get close to his peak ages.

      Is Span a better bargain at his deal? Yeah, and I would take Span at his contract over Upton. But to say straight up (money not an issue) that you would take Span over Upton is disingenuous, or else you don't follow baseball much.
      Upton rates as above average according to every defensvie metric out there? Like his -3.2 UZR/150 this last season? Or maybe his -4 defensive runs saved this last season? Or maybe him being ranked 19 out of 20 qualifying CFs with plays made outside the zone? Or his negative dWAR? Are those defensive metrics you're referring to?

      He was so bad in fact, that he got not one singular vote for the fielding bible award for CFs, when 24 other CFs did. And you say he's 'above average'

      Then there was the -7 defensive runs saved in CF last year and -19 defensive runs saved in CF the year before.

      He also had a BA in the .240s last year, an OBP below .300 and his 169Ks. GREAT offensive numbers. Did you miss all that when drooling over the HR and SBs (which I mentioned, BTW)

      Don't talk to me about not following baseball too much, you look silly...especially when you ay Upton was an above average defensive CF
    1. johnnydakota's Avatar
      johnnydakota -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jim H View Post
      Lots of interesting speculation on this. I doubt if we ever know if one side "caved" on this trade or not. It is hardly in anyone's interest to reveal that. What is true, is that it will be years before this trade can be fairly evalulated. There is a pretty chance Span will continue to be largely what he has been. Meyer could turn into an ace, a good starting pitcher, a closer, a decent reliever or never reach the majors at all.
      110 million dollar payroll, With 2 prospects with no place to play why not trade justin and a prospect for either torontos Dárnaud or texas 3b olt? We would be adding quality to the infield and saving 15 million . That would give us about 55 million to spend and enough to sign Anibal Sanchez to a 4 year contract at 15 million per with a 5 th year option at 20 million,along with either Jackson or Dempster at 12-14 million per year. That would give us enough money to sign Hamilton to replace Justins left handed power and allow Revere to play left field and ham moving to dh ,improving our defense in the outfield and giving us an exciting rotation and a killer batting order. ok now that your maybe done laughing remember inflation and we are still 1-3 years from seeing our top prospect from arriving, and when they do we will have trade chips in the players we signed this year to reload the minors ,or to add a player or 2 to make a run at a title..
    1. Nick Nelson's Avatar
      Nick Nelson -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jim Crikket View Post
      So when I read media reports that Ryan may be looking at a Pohlad-imposed limit near the $90 million mark, it disgusts me.
      Why don't we wait and see how much he actually spends before getting disgusted? I agree with your overall viewpoints about payroll but this seems like needless hand-wringing to me.
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      Upton is a below average defensive CF who hits some HRs and steals some bases but he strikes out a ton and has trouble getting on base or hitting for average.

      If given a choice between Span and Upton straight up, I'd take Span...when considering what they'll both be paid the next three seasons, it's Span in a freakin landslide.
      Dude, Upton is a significantly better player then Span, just take a look at the upside and his last 3 years of offensive production vs Span. Also, not sure where you are getting this Upton is below average defensively thing. Upton actually rates as above average according to ever defensive metric out there. Also, Upton doesn't have the injury concerns Span has and has shown significant power spikes as he has started to get close to his peak ages.

      Is Span a better bargain at his deal? Yeah, and I would take Span at his contract over Upton. But to say straight up (money not an issue) that you would take Span over Upton is disingenuous, or else you don't follow baseball much.
      Upton rates as above average according to every defensvie metric out there? Like his -3.2 UZR/150 this last season? Or maybe his -4 defensive runs saved this last season? Or maybe him being ranked 19 out of 20 qualifying CFs with plays made outside the zone? He was so bad in fact, that he got not one singular vote for the fielding bible award for CFs, when 24 other CFs did?

      Then there was the -7 defensive runs saved in CF last year and -19 defensive runs saved in CF the year before.

      Are those defensive metrics you're referring to??

      He also had a BA in the .240s last year, an OBP below .300 and his 169Ks. GREAT offensive numbers. Did you miss all that when drooling over the HR and SBs (which I mentioned, BTW)

      Don't talk to me about not following baseball too much, you look silly...especially when you ay Upton was an above average defensive CF
      Well you are the one who is using one year's worth of defensive stats. Anyone that understands how defensive advanced metrics works knows that it is better to take a longer look type approach to it rather then just one year at a time. In 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 Upton rated as above average in total fielding and UZR. So basically we have 5 years that say above average and 1 year below average....hmm....I wonder what conclusions we can draw from that.

      Keep sticking to the smaller picture though!
    1. gunnarthor's Avatar
      gunnarthor -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      Upton is a below average defensive CF who hits some HRs and steals some bases but he strikes out a ton and has trouble getting on base or hitting for average.

      If given a choice between Span and Upton straight up, I'd take Span...when considering what they'll both be paid the next three seasons, it's Span in a freakin landslide.
      Dude, Upton is a significantly better player then Span, just take a look at the upside and his last 3 years of offensive production vs Span. Also, not sure where you are getting this Upton is below average defensively thing. Upton actually rates as above average according to ever defensive metric out there. Also, Upton doesn't have the injury concerns Span has and has shown significant power spikes as he has started to get close to his peak ages.

      Is Span a better bargain at his deal? Yeah, and I would take Span at his contract over Upton. But to say straight up (money not an issue) that you would take Span over Upton is disingenuous, or else you don't follow baseball much.
      Both brWAR and fangraphs UZR have Upton listed as a negative defender now. Last year, both rWAR and fWAR would have Span as the slightly better player (although that comes with all the WAR is really not that accurate admonitions). I'd prefer Upton for his durability but it's close.
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Also: Career UZR/150:

      Span: 4.5
      Upton: 3.9

      Like I said before, very similar with maybe a slight advantage to Span. Upton however has the significant advantage in offense and base running.
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Is Span a better bargain at his deal? Yeah, and I would take Span at his contract over Upton. But to say straight up (money not an issue) that you would take Span over Upton is disingenuous, or else you don't follow baseball much.
      Minus the injuries, I'd rather have Span, honestly. They both OPS around the same but Span gets more of that OPS from OBP.

      Of course, injury concerns slant that back into Upton's favor quite a bit.
      First off, that's not really accurate:

      Spans last three years: .679 .678 .738 OBP= .331 .328 .342
      Uptons last three years: .745 .759 .752 BP=.322 .331 .298

      Keep in mind that also Upton was playing in Tampa Bay which was quite a large pitchers park in 2012 as well as the rest of its history vs Target field that was neutral in 2012 and close to neutral overall.

      Upton also will give you 30-40 SB a year vs Span who will give you 20-25 at most along with a ton of pick offs. Lastly, give me the guy that has 25+ HR power (will hit for 30+ next year if healthy) over the guy who has 5 HR power.

      Defensively all things considered (Park, other guys sharing the OF) they are basically a wash, maybe a slight advantage to Span.

      IMO its not really close if you take money out of the equation, with or without injuries.
      Except that Span's line was crushed in 2011 by injuries and his 2010 was just pretty miserable overall. 2012 is the first season since the Metrodome where he looked like the Span of old. It's hard to separate the player from the injuries in this case.
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      Upton is a below average defensive CF who hits some HRs and steals some bases but he strikes out a ton and has trouble getting on base or hitting for average.

      If given a choice between Span and Upton straight up, I'd take Span...when considering what they'll both be paid the next three seasons, it's Span in a freakin landslide.
      Dude, Upton is a significantly better player then Span, just take a look at the upside and his last 3 years of offensive production vs Span. Also, not sure where you are getting this Upton is below average defensively thing. Upton actually rates as above average according to ever defensive metric out there. Also, Upton doesn't have the injury concerns Span has and has shown significant power spikes as he has started to get close to his peak ages.

      Is Span a better bargain at his deal? Yeah, and I would take Span at his contract over Upton. But to say straight up (money not an issue) that you would take Span over Upton is disingenuous, or else you don't follow baseball much.
      Both brWAR and fangraphs UZR have Upton listed as a negative defender now. Last year, both rWAR and fWAR would have Span as the slightly better player (although that comes with all the WAR is really not that accurate admonitions). I'd prefer Upton for his durability but it's close.
      See my comment before your post. In the 5 years prior to 2012 Upton was listed as a positive defender in CF. Moving forward I will take the 5 plus years over the 1 negative year as a sign of things to come, especially from a 28 year old.
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      Upton is a below average defensive CF who hits some HRs and steals some bases but he strikes out a ton and has trouble getting on base or hitting for average.

      If given a choice between Span and Upton straight up, I'd take Span...when considering what they'll both be paid the next three seasons, it's Span in a freakin landslide.
      Dude, Upton is a significantly better player then Span, just take a look at the upside and his last 3 years of offensive production vs Span. Also, not sure where you are getting this Upton is below average defensively thing. Upton actually rates as above average according to ever defensive metric out there. Also, Upton doesn't have the injury concerns Span has and has shown significant power spikes as he has started to get close to his peak ages.

      Is Span a better bargain at his deal? Yeah, and I would take Span at his contract over Upton. But to say straight up (money not an issue) that you would take Span over Upton is disingenuous, or else you don't follow baseball much.
      Upton rates as above average according to every defensvie metric out there? Like his -3.2 UZR/150 this last season? Or maybe his -4 defensive runs saved this last season? Or maybe him being ranked 19 out of 20 qualifying CFs with plays made outside the zone? He was so bad in fact, that he got not one singular vote for the fielding bible award for CFs, when 24 other CFs did?

      Then there was the -7 defensive runs saved in CF last year and -19 defensive runs saved in CF the year before.

      Are those defensive metrics you're referring to??

      He also had a BA in the .240s last year, an OBP below .300 and his 169Ks. GREAT offensive numbers. Did you miss all that when drooling over the HR and SBs (which I mentioned, BTW)

      Don't talk to me about not following baseball too much, you look silly...especially when you ay Upton was an above average defensive CF
      Well you are the one who is using one year's worth of defensive stats. Anyone that understands how defensive advanced metrics works knows that it is better to take a longer look type approach to it rather then just one year at a time. In 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 Upton rated as above average in total fielding and UZR. So basically we have 5 years that say above average and 1 year below average....hmm....I wonder what conclusions we can draw from that.

      Keep sticking to the smaller picture though!
      Yeah, they say look at the last three years...did you see the negative defensive runs saved for 2010 and 2011?
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Excuses
      The fact is Upton has outperformed him significantly over the last 3 years. Poll 30 GMs in the league and ask them who a btter player is and you will get 30 Upton answers. If Span was considered the better player you would have seen a lot more rumors in regards to the trade and a lot larger names being thrown around.
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
      OK, we'll put the shoe on the other foot then.

      Great move by Rizzo. The Nationals probably never wanted Upton anyway, and were just waiting for him to sign so that the Twins' options for trading Span were more limited and the Nats didn't have to give up anything more than one A-ball prospect. The Twins were probably asking for more than Meyers for Span, but when interest from the Braves dried up they were left holding the bag. It's obvious that the Nationals had their eyes on Span all along and were never all that interested in Upton.
      That doesn't make any sense, really.

      1. The Braves and Nationals were not the only potential trade partners for Span while Denard was the best centerfielder still on the market.

      2. Ryan didn't have to trade Span. He also has Revere and Willingham on the roster, who could easily be dished to several other teams if the market for Span was shallow.

      3. The Twins are not under pressure to win while the Nationals just saw their biggest rival pick up the best outfielder on the market. With Denard under contract for three more years, who do you think was pressured into making a move? It wasn't Ryan.
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Is Span a better bargain at his deal? Yeah, and I would take Span at his contract over Upton. But to say straight up (money not an issue) that you would take Span over Upton is disingenuous, or else you don't follow baseball much.
      Minus the injuries, I'd rather have Span, honestly. They both OPS around the same but Span gets more of that OPS from OBP.

      Of course, injury concerns slant that back into Upton's favor quite a bit.
      First off, that's not really accurate:

      Spans last three years: .679 .678 .738 OBP= .331 .328 .342
      Uptons last three years: .745 .759 .752 BP=.322 .331 .298

      Keep in mind that also Upton was playing in Tampa Bay which was quite a large pitchers park in 2012 as well as the rest of its history vs Target field that was neutral in 2012 and close to neutral overall.

      Upton also will give you 30-40 SB a year vs Span who will give you 20-25 at most along with a ton of pick offs. Lastly, give me the guy that has 25+ HR power (will hit for 30+ next year if healthy) over the guy who has 5 HR power.

      Defensively all things considered (Park, other guys sharing the OF) they are basically a wash, maybe a slight advantage to Span.

      IMO its not really close if you take money out of the equation, with or without injuries.
      Except that Span's line was crushed in 2011 by injuries and his 2010 was just pretty miserable overall. 2012 is the first season since the Metrodome where he looked like the Span of old. It's hard to separate the player from the injuries in this case.
      Exactly. Span was ranked as the 3rd best defensive CF in baseball this year and Upton was right near the bottom...
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Excuses
      The fact is Upton has outperformed him significantly over the last 3 years. Poll 30 GMs in the league and ask them who a btter player is and you will get 30 Upton answers. If Span was considered the better player you would have seen a lot more rumors in regards to the trade and a lot larger names being thrown around.
      Jesus Christ, Dave. I said that if you factor in injuries, the pendulum swings heavily into Upton's favor. Or did you also miss the sentence that read " It's hard to separate the player from the injuries in this case." We were talking hypotheticals, not actual reality. In reality, Span's injury history is a massive drag on his value.

      *headdesk*
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Excuses
      The fact is Upton has outperformed him significantly over the last 3 years. Poll 30 GMs in the league and ask them who a btter player is and you will get 30 Upton answers. If Span was considered the better player you would have seen a lot more rumors in regards to the trade and a lot larger names being thrown around.
      Something to do with Span's concussion, I imagine...Upton is a below average defensive CF, he strikes out a ton and he hasn't hit over .245 in the last 4 seasons. But chicks dig the long ball...
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      Yeah, they say look at the last three years...did you see the negative defensive runs saved for 2010 and 2011?
      I see his positive UZR, which is what I use along with the "eye test". I'm not a huge fan of DRS, but since we are on that subject game keep in mind that prior to Revere hoping in the OF along with Span, Span was posting negative defensive runs saved as well (2010 season and before) and actually was posting less OOZ then Upton as well.

      What does this all tell us? Upton and Span are very similar, so you can't call one "above average" while dismissing the other as "below average"
    1. mike wants wins's Avatar
      mike wants wins -
      either you are not reading what I am saying, I said it badly, or something else is going on. Because I never once said what you are saying I said. Sometimes I wonder if people are willing to listen to people they do not agree with at all. Because it sure does not feel that way a lot on this site.
    1. gunnarthor's Avatar
      gunnarthor -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      See my comment before your post. In the 5 years prior to 2012 Upton was listed as a positive defender in CF. Moving forward I will take the 5 plus years over the 1 negative year as a sign of things to come, especially from a 28 year old.
      Maybe, maybe not. But that's getting away from the first point when you said Upton rates as above average in every single defensive statistic out there. That is clearly not the case.

      His UZR has fallen considerably over the last five years. Over the last 3 years, it has been pretty bland. Additionally, bWAR's defensive metric has never liked Upton, making him negative for his career.

      You might be right. He might still be an above average defender at the age of 28. But others might well suggest that, after nearly 1000 games, many on artificial turf, Upton is starting to show decline in his defensive game. Or defensive stats may be seriously skewered. Look at Carl Crawford. From a great defender to a negative one in one season - that was clearly marred by injury and moving to different positions as well as playing at Fenway where the Monster affects defensive stats (Hardball times had an article pointing to two parks that affected defensive adjustments, Fenway's Monster and the Dome's baggy, so I suppose Span's stats over that five year period could also all be in question).
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Excuses
      The fact is Upton has outperformed him significantly over the last 3 years. Poll 30 GMs in the league and ask them who a btter player is and you will get 30 Upton answers. If Span was considered the better player you would have seen a lot more rumors in regards to the trade and a lot larger names being thrown around.
      Jesus Christ, Dave. I said that if you factor in injuries, the pendulum swings heavily into Upton's favor. Or did you also miss the sentence that read " It's hard to separate the player from the injuries in this case." We were talking hypotheticals, not actual reality. In reality, Span's injury history is a massive drag on his value.

      *headdesk*
      He was healthy in 2010 yet posted an OPS about a 100 points less, you write it off as pretty miserable overall, yet still say that taking injuries out of it you'd prefer Span. I was showing you that even when healthy Upton is outperforming him.
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      Yeah, they say look at the last three years...did you see the negative defensive runs saved for 2010 and 2011?
      I see his positive UZR, which is what I use along with the "eye test". I'm not a huge fan of DRS, but since we are on that subject game keep in mind that prior to Revere hoping in the OF along with Span, Span was posting negative defensive runs saved as well (2010 season and before) and actually was posting less OOZ then Upton as well.

      What does this all tell us? Upton and Span are very similar, so you can't call one "above average" while dismissing the other as "below average"
      His positive UZR over the last three years? barely...ever so slightly...what .8? Awesome...truly well above average

      Nice to see you dismiss the defensive runs saved stat...since it doesn't follow your opinion.

      In any event, overall player ability, I take Span...especially when considering contract. Keep thinking I don't know baseball cause of that opinion though....
    1. ThePuck's Avatar
      ThePuck -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Excuses
      The fact is Upton has outperformed him significantly over the last 3 years. Poll 30 GMs in the league and ask them who a btter player is and you will get 30 Upton answers. If Span was considered the better player you would have seen a lot more rumors in regards to the trade and a lot larger names being thrown around.
      Jesus Christ, Dave. I said that if you factor in injuries, the pendulum swings heavily into Upton's favor. Or did you also miss the sentence that read " It's hard to separate the player from the injuries in this case." We were talking hypotheticals, not actual reality. In reality, Span's injury history is a massive drag on his value.

      *headdesk*
      He was healthy in 2010 yet posted an OPS about a 100 points less, you write it off as pretty miserable overall, yet still say that taking injuries out of it you'd prefer Span. I was showing you that even when healthy Upton is outperforming him.
      You mean his 2nd full season? Yeah, it's unusual to see a player drop some in his second full season...seems they have a name for that...
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