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  • Spring Organizational Depth Chart: The Starting Pitchers

    Last week, we began to look at the Minnesota Twins organizational depth by looking at all of the outfielders and then all of the infielders in the in the system. Yesterday, we reviewed all of the catchers. Today, we will be taking a look at the starting pitchers throughout the Twins system. Consider there are five starters on the big league team plus four full-season affiliates and several remaining in Extended Spring Training. There are lots of pitchers to get through.

    As pitchers move up the organizational ladder, they typically get put into either the starting pitcher or relief pitcher category. In the lower levels, the line is a little more blurry. Because all pitchers are a little different (age, mechanics, stuff, maturity), they are treated a little differently. A high school draft pick in his first full season will likely throw less innings than a 25-year-old in AAA. In the lower levels, it’s quite possible that one pitcher will start in the first half and pitch out of the bullpen in the second half, or once they hit a certain innings limit. Other pitchers may be stretched out in the bullpen and move into the rotation when scheduled. This also occurs when a pitcher is rehabbing an injury. In other words, it is important to remember that if a pitcher is not starting in April, it doesn’t mean that he’ll be in the bullpen the whole year.

    Here are (most of) the Starting Pitchers in the Minnesota Twins organization:

    Minnesota Twins


    Kevin Correia, Mike Pelfrey, Vance Worley, Scott Diamond (DL), Liam Hendriks, Cole De Vries,

    Scott Baker, Francisco Liriano and Carl Pavano are gone. Last year’s best pitcher, Scott Diamond is likely to start the season on the Disabled List after having bone chips removed from his elbow in December. The Twins starting rotation in 2012 was a hodge-podge, thrown together with hope and prayers, and for the most part, things went horribly wrong. The front office did make a couple of offseason trades to make the future of the starting rotation look brighter, but they did little to instill confidence that the rotation will be much better in 2013.

    That said, there can be some reason for some minimal optimism, should you choose to think that way. In the Ben Revere trade, the Twins acquired Vance Worley who was clearly the #54 starter for the Phillies rotation the last couple of years (behind the likes of Halladay, Lee, Oswalt and Hamels), but he would have been the Twins top guy the last couple of seasons. He would be the odds-on favorite to be the team’s top starter in 2013. He also had bone chips removed, but his procedure was done last August. Kevin Correia is going to give up a ton of hits. We know that. But if he can find a way to give up four runs or less in his 5-6 innings most starts, the offense may have a chance to keep up. He got $10 million. He’ll be making starts. Mike Pelfrey was an innings-eater at least for the Mets for several years. That is, until 2012 when he had Tommy John surgery in May. His comeback has been nothing short of remarkable, though it will be interesting to see how his aggressive return plays out. If healthy, he can be an average starter. Liam Hendriks would likely be in the lead for the 5th starter job if it was decided today. (Yes, he also had bone chips removed, in October) He’s looking to take his immense minor league success and show it in the big leagues in 2013. Assuming Diamond starts on the DL, the Twins will need another starter, and I would say that would be Cole de Vries at this point. The Minnesota native has performed quite well this spring, and although expectations were low for him in his rookie season, he actually pitched well.

    Rochester Red Wings


    Kyle Gibson, Samuel Deduno, PJ Walters, Pedro Hernandez, Virgil Vasquez, Scott Elarton (Nick Blackburn – DL)

    There is a chance that Kyle Gibson still makes the Twins Opening Day roster, but I sense that he is going to begin the season with the Red Wings where they will be able to limit his innings early in the season. That way, when he comes up to the Twins, there will be no limitations. Samuel Deduno will certainly be an interesting pitcher to watch in 2013. He pitched much better than expected in 2012, even showing good control at times. He was terrific in the Dominican Winter League, and his one start in the WBC was very impressive, and no walks. PJ Walters is having a very good spring again, and may be trying to earn a spot as a long reliever. Assuming he doesn’t, he’ll again be part of the Red Wings starting staff. Pedro Hernandez came to the Twins in the Francisco Liriano deal, made a couple of starts for Rochester, and then his season ended with injury. He is yet to give up a run this spring and may be competing with Tyler Robertson for a third lefty reliever. Virgil Vasquez hasn’t played in the big leagues for a couple of years. The Twins signed him while he was pitching in the Australian Baseball League this past winter. Elarton is another veteran who has been around for many years. He’s looking to the Twins for another opportunity. As you know, Nick Blackburn will begin the season on the Disabled List. When healthy, he’ll get another chance to start.

    New Britain Rock Cats


    BJ Hermsen, Alex Meyer, Trevor May, Logan Darnell, Pat Dean, Blake Martin, Tom Stuifbergen, Kyle Davies, (Alex Wimmers – DL)

    Hermsen was the Twins minor league pitcher of the year last year. He spent April in Ft. Myers, but he moved up to New Britain and was an Eastern League All-Star. He earned his spot on the Twins 40 man roster. Trevor May came to the Twins with Vance Worley from the Phillies in the Ben Revere trade. The hard-throwing right hander pitched for Reading (AA) last year and will return to the league for 2013 because he struggled with control. If he can throw strikes, he has the pitches and the mid-90s fastball to become a top of the rotation type of starter. Alex Meyer came to the Twins in the Denard Span trade. As the Twins said, to get a top of the rotation pitcher, you have to give something significant up, and before he gets to the upper levels. The sky is the limit for Meyer as he has a fastball that reaches into the upper-90s and a devastating slider. Darnell is a lefty who has pitched for the Rock Cats each of the past two seasons. He pitched in the Arizona Fall League last year. Blake Martin is another lefty who sees time in the rotation and in the bullpen. He has generally pitched better as a starter. Kyle Davies was once a prospect with the Braves. He was traded to the Royals where he was even worse. He did not pitch at all in 2012 and hopes to stick in the Twins organization. Stuifbergen has pitched for Ft. Myers each of the last two seasons. He has the stuff to be a solid starter, but he has to stay healthy. He is pitching for The Netherlands in the WBC. Alex Wimmers had Tommy John surgery in July, and he will likely be rehabbing much of the season.

    Ft. Myers Miracle


    Adrian Salcedo, Jason Wheeler, Matt Summers, Madison Boer, David Hurlbut, Matt Tomshaw, Luke Bard

    Adrian Salcedo was one of the Twins Top 10 prospects a year ago at this time, but in 2012, he missed most of the season with shoulder and elbow injuries. When healthy, he is long and lanky and can throw 95. He’s very athletic and could move quickly when confident in his arm. Jason Wheeler led the Twins minor leagues in Wins in 2012 with the Beloit Snappers. The tall left-hander doesn’t throw hard but does have good control and three pitches. Matt Summers started last year with the Snappers, but he was promoted to Ft. Myers where he was solid but unspectacular. Eden Prairie’s Madison Boer moved up to Ft. Myers very early and really struggled. I think that he could move up the system really quickly if he moved to the bullpen, but he has the velocity and the pitches that make him intriguing still as a starter. Hurlbut and Tomshaw were both terrific in the Beloit rotation all season. The lefties don’t throw hard, but they know how to pitch. Tomshaw pitched well right for the Miracle right after he was drafted in 2011, and he will return again in 2013. Luke Bard was the Twins third, first-round pick in 2012 out of Georgia Tech. He pitched so little last year due to injury. He will begin the season as a bullpen guy, but he will get a chance to start at some point.

    Cedar Rapids Kernels


    JO Berrios, DJ Baxendale, Tyler Duffey, Mason Melotakis, Taylor Rogers, Christian Powell, Brett Lee

    The Twins’ draft strategy last year included taking top available talent. For the team, the meant a lot of hard-throwing college arms who could move up quickly in the bullpen, but the Twins want several of them to become starters. When JO Berrios was available with the first pick of the supplemental first round, the Twins were thrilled to select him. The youngster impressed the Twins brass in spring training before heading to the WBC to pitch for Puerto Rico. Taylor Rogers moved up to Beloit and made a few starts in 2012 after being drafted out of Kentucky. DJ Baxendale pitched for Arkansas in the College World Series last year. Upon signing, the Twins kept him pitching out of the bullpen to limit his innings. He was dominant for the Snappers in 2012. Melotakis was the Twins 2nd round pick. The hard-throwing lefty dominated out of the bullpen, but he will also be able to find out if he can be a starter. Tyler Duffey put up astonishing numbers in Elizabethton as a reliever. He pitched for the Snappers in the playoffs. He too will be getting an opportunity to start. Christian Powell worked just a handful of innings before being hurt, but the hard-thrower will get a chance to start. Brett Lee is a lefty who pitched well for Elizabethton last year. He was drafted three times, so I’d expect him to take a big step forward in 2013.

    Extended Spring Training/Short-Season


    Hudson Boyd, Austin Malinowski, Josue Montanez, Hein Robb, Sam Gibbons, Felix Jorge, Yorman Landa, Kuo-Hua Lo.

    Hudson Boyd’s first pro season was full of ups and downs, and his numbers show it. The 20-year-old pitched in Elizabethton last year and posted a solid 2.95 ERA. However, he was just 2-5 and had a WHIP of 1.48 while striking out just 36 in 58 innings. He throws hard. He lost a lot of weight this offseason. Expect much improvement in his second season. Austin Malinowski is from Minnesota and gave up a ride to the University of Arizona to sign with the Twins. He went 3-2 with a 2.27 ERA in 11 games in the GCL. His WHIP was 1.45, but the southpaw struckout 32 batters in 31.2 innings. Josue Montanez fought some injuries last year, but when he pitched, he was terrific. In the GCL, the lefty went 2-0 with a 0.36 ERA and a 0.84 WHIP. He struckout 30 and walked just eight in 25 innings. Seems like lefty Hein Robb has been around for a long time. He has been. The Twins signed him as a 16-year-old from South Africa. He played for their national team in the 2009 WBC, before he even pitched in the States. Last year at E-Town (after two years in the GCL), the lefty went 2-4 with a 3.73 ERA and a 1.49 WHIP. In 41 innings, he walked 14 and struckout 38. Sam Gibbons is a 19-year-old from Australia who debuted in the States with the GCL Twins in 2012. He went 4-1 with a 2.29 ERA and a 1.02 WHIP in 35.1 innings. He walked just eight but struckout just 22. Felix Jorge was signed as a highly-touted right-hander from the Dominican. He went 0-3 but posted a 2.34 ERA and a 1.21 WHIP in the GCL. In 34.2 innings, he walked 12 and struckout 37. Jorge just recently turned 19. Yorman Landa is also highly-touted. He comes from Venezuela. He too pitched in the GCL in 2012, and he went 1-3 with a 2.43 ERA. In 33.1 innings, he walked too many (21) but struckout 27. He will turn 19 about the time the Elizabethton season starts. Kuo-Hua Lo signed from Taiwan near in 2011 and debuted in the GCL as a 19-year-old in 2012. He went 2-0 with a 1.13 ERA and a 0.78 WHIP in 11 games. In 39.2 innings, he walked seven and struckout 33.

    TOP PROSPECTS


    1.) Alex Meyer, 2.) Kyle Gibson, 3.) JO Berrios, 4.) Trevor May, 5.) Mason Melotakis, 6.) Luke Bard, 7.) BJ Hermsen, 8.) Felix Jorge.

    The Twins finally have a few pitchers in their system with some significant upside. Alex Meyer has true ace potential. Kyle Gibson is very close, and he can be a solid #2. The sky may be the limit for JO Berrios, and although he’s young, he could move quickly. May came to the organization, and he has #2 upside, and if he does wind up in the bullpen, he could be dominant.

    SUMMARY


    2012 was a frustrating year for the Twins. Often, the team would find itself down by three or four runs before the third inning. It will be interesting to see how the new pitchers fit in and pitch in the American League. It will be interesting to see Hendriks and De Vries get their next shot in the big leagues. Some of those guys that were forced into action last year for the Twins are still around, hoping for another shot. In Sam Deduno and PJ Walters, they have good options.

    And, what is really exciting is the influx of talent that the Twins have had since the end of last year. A couple of guys came via trade The Twins drafted the talented Berrios, and then a bunch of strong-armed college pitchers. Some will get a chance to start. Others could move up quickly in the bullpen. And, there are some more high-ceiling, high potential pitchers who threw in the GCL a year ago. It will be interesting to watch their slow climb up the organizational ladder.

    The Twins minor league pitching depth hasn’t been this strong in a long time. Will they use that #4 pick in the 2013 draft to obtain more high-ceiling pitching talent? We shall see.

    If you have any further questions, please feel free to leave your thoughts in the Comments Section!
    This article was originally published in blog: Spring Organizational Depth Chart: The Starting Pitchers started by Seth Stohs
    Comments 39 Comments
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
      And I'll trump you with Grienke, Sanchez, and Lohse!
      D*** you, and your Big Media Market Budget....
    1. PseudoSABR's Avatar
      PseudoSABR -
      With enough innings (which you seem to assume), Lannan costs $5mil, Saunders, 7.5, Marcum, 8; for a total of 20.5 million. The Twins spent about 10.5 million for the three pitchers they acquired. We were both working with fantasy budgets.
    1. Kwak's Avatar
      Kwak -
      Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
      With enough innings (which you seem to assume), Lannan costs $5mil, Saunders, 7.5, Marcum, 8; for a total of 20.5 million. The Twins spent about 10.5 million for the three pitchers they acquired. We were both working with fantasy budgets.
      This raises the question: Should Ryan have just saved that $10MM and rolled with last year's rotation--and either lose 100+ and select very early in the draft, or give those fellows one more shot to prove themselves? Hint: Based on earlier threads, the Twins aren't supposed to block the new talent from promotion.
    1. PseudoSABR's Avatar
      PseudoSABR -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
      This raises the question: Should Ryan have just saved that $10MM and rolled with last year's rotation--and either lose 100+ and select very early in the draft, or give those fellows one more shot to prove themselves? Hint: Based on earlier threads, the Twins aren't supposed to block the new talent from promotion.
      Do you blame Ryan for the budget or ownership?
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
      With enough innings (which you seem to assume), Lannan costs $5mil, Saunders, 7.5, Marcum, 8; for a total of 20.5 million. The Twins spent about 10.5 million for the three pitchers they acquired. We were both working with fantasy budgets.
      Actually, they have committed $10M to Correia (2 years) and $4M to Pelfrey plus $.5M to Worley, which makes the total $14.5M. Meanwhile, still cutting around ~$25M from the payroll.

      The base salary for the 3 pitchers I proposed is $13M. And, they are all on one-year, incentive-laden contracts. In addition, it's extremely unlikely that Lannan and Marcum will hit most of their incentives, so the net cost of the 3 acquisitions is much likely closer to $15-18 M than the $20.5M potential max cost. So, assuming the Twins acquire Worley anyways via the trade, the Twins could have had 3 better pitchers for only a few million more dollars than the 2 they did sign, one attached with question marks after coming off of TJ and the other, 2 years committed to one of the worst SPs in baseball.

      Regardless, throwing Greinke, Lohse, Sanchez into the conversation is sheer fantasy and not anything close to equivalent comparisons, as you're talking about $275M combined in committments to the three players.
    1. PseudoSABR's Avatar
      PseudoSABR -
      Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
      Actually, they have committed $10M to Correia (2 years) and $4M to Pelfrey plus $.5M to Worley, which makes the total $14.5M. Meanwhile, still cutting around ~$25M from the payroll.

      The base salary for the 3 pitchers I proposed is $13M. And, they are all on one-year, incentive-laden contracts. In addition, it's extremely unlikely that Lannan and Marcum will hit most of their incentives, so the net cost of the 3 acquisitions is much likely closer to $15-18 M than the $20.5M potential max cost. So, assuming the Twins acquire Worley anyways via the trade, the Twins could have had 3 better pitchers for only a few million more dollars than the 2 they did sign, one attached with question marks after coming off of TJ and the other, 2 years committed to one of the worst SPs in baseball.
      Well you certainly construed every contract to fit your premise, including Correia's second year cost while trumpeting the base salaries of health risk pitchers. If Marcum and Lanan don't hit most of their incentives, the haven't been effective--you simply can't have it both ways.

      Moderator edit -- this is a great thread and I do not want to interrupt, but please refrain from characterizing other people's posts as "patronizing and juvenile". Also, I don't believe that he intended his formatting to be inflammatory -- it seems to me that he was trying to make his position clearer -- and you are both making good points and it will be disappointing if the focus gets distracted by personal attacks.

      Regardless, throwing Greinke, Lohse, Sanchez into the conversation is sheer fantasy and not anything close to equivalent comparisons, as you're talking about $275M combined in committments to the three players.
      Obviously.

      My point isn't to suggest the Twins should have signed the players that they did (Pelfry/Correia, etc.), nor that they should have signed Sanchez or Grienke, but rather my point is that the pitchers you suggest are only a better bet in an idealistic outcome.

      My sense is that the Twins are cheap and health-risk adverse, not stupid.
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
      Well you certainly construed every contract to fit your premise, including Correia's second year cost while trumpeting the base salaries of health risk pitchers. If Marcum and Lanan don't hit most of their incentives, the haven't been effective--you simply can't have it both ways.

      And seriously, if you can't make your point without bolding certain elements, you need to rewrite your post. It's somehow both patronizing and juvenile at the same time.

      Obviously.

      My point isn't to suggest the Twins should have signed the players that they did (Pelfry/Correia, etc.), nor that they should have signed Sanchez or Grienke, but rather my point is that the pitchers you suggest are only a better bet in an idealistic outcome.

      My sense is that the Twins are cheap and health-risk adverse, not stupid.
      Patronized-easily yet again- and an infusion of pejorative invective, all in one sentence of faux-dismissal, well played. Yet you "somehow" completely missed my point, even with the paint-by-number boldfaced dollar amounts that I provided.

      Moderator edit -- this is what happens when someone starts throwing around words like "patronizing and juvenile." You gentlemen are having a great debate that is illuminating and fun. Go after each other's ideas as aggressively as you wish, but please refrain from personal attacks that are irrelevant to what is otherwise a profound discussion.

      An "idealistic outcome", what exactly does that mean? In point of fact and directly contrary to your throw-away proposal, I "realistically" proposed 3 guys that the Twins "very realistically" could have obtained- with clearly better track records, predictable outcomes, durability and medical histories, and for only a slight premium to what they actually committed to (and yes, it is $14M guaranteed money that the Twins are obligated to pay).

      Finally, we both agree that the Twins have made a choice to be miserly over the next few seasons, but how can you say the Twins are "health-risk adverse", given that virtually every SP in the potential rotation has health questions that are yet to be answered, and of the FA pitchers, all but Correia have serious health concerns that make them more wild cards than players who can legitimately have their likely 2013 production parameters penciled in?
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      If Marcum and Lanan don't hit most of their incentives, the haven't been effective--you simply can't have it both ways.
      ...while trumpeting the base salaries of health risk pitchers.
      Wrong. If Marcum and Lannan don't hit most of their incentives, which are based on innings and starts, they can still produce stats similar to what they have accomplished in most of their careers, which would be superior to last year's Twins starters and likely far better than what Correia will produce (I'm sure most will agree that Pelfrey is a wild card that might hit, but certainly a higher risk for a predictable outcome than Marcum or Lannan).

      Wrong again. Marcum is the one health risk pitcher of the 3, Saunders and Lannan have a history of strong durability.
    1. glunn's Avatar
      glunn -
      Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
      Wrong. If Marcum and Lannan don't hit most of their incentives, which are based on innings and starts, they will still produce stats similar to what they have accomplished in most of their careers, which would be superior to last year's Twins starters and likely far better than what Correia will produce (I'm sure most will agree that Pelfrey is a wild card that might hit, but certainly a higher risk for a predictable outcome than Marcum or Lannan).
      Can someone enlighten us as to exactly what incentives they have in their contracts?
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
      Can someone enlighten us as to exactly what incentives they have in their contracts?
      Lannan gets $200K for each 10 inning step above 150 innings, $250K for 200 and 210IP and $250K for each start above 30 to 34.

      Marcum's details haven't been officially disclosed, but are based on similar benchmarks of production.
    1. glunn's Avatar
      glunn -
      Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
      Lannan gets $200K for each 10 inning step above 150 innings, $250K for 200 and 210IP and $250K for each start above 30 to 34.

      Marcum's details haven't been officially disclosed, but are based on similar benchmarks of production.
      So based on that, would everyone agree that there is at least some merit to the position that Lannan and Marcum would probably be an upgrade even of they hit only half of the incentives, say roughly 175 innings and 2 starts? What jokin is saying makes sense to me, assuming that Correia is as bad as people are saying.

      On the other hand, I have high hopes for Worley as someone who could be very good for years to come if he can improve his "out" pitch. And Pelfry could turn out to be a big contributor for a year, a total bust or something in between.

      Only one thing seems certain -- we won't know which side was correct for at least another few months.
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by glunn View Post
      So based on that, would everyone agree that there is at least some merit to the position that Lannan and Marcum would probably be an upgrade even of they hit only half of the incentives, say roughly 175 innings and 2 starts? What jokin is saying makes sense to me, assuming that Correia is as bad as people are saying.

      On the other hand, I have high hopes for Worley as someone who could be very good for years to come if he can improve his "out" pitch. And Pelfry could turn out to be a big contributor for a year, a total bust or something in between.

      Only one thing seems certain -- we won't know which side was correct for at least another few months.
      I didn't necessarily have a problem with signing Pelfrey. My main objection was that they couldn't get a team option 2nd year out of his agent. The first year back from TJ is usually pretty meh. And even assuming that Pelfrey starts out of the gate gangbusters, the chance that the Twins can trade him for value at the deadline is very slim.

      I like the Worley acquisition as well, young and with some personality and a chance to re-establish himself as a legit #3SP with a fanbase that has far more patience than Philadelphia.
    1. PseudoSABR's Avatar
      PseudoSABR -
      Marcum

      • 1 year/$4M (2013)
        • signed by NY Mets as a free agent 1/13
        • performance bonuses: $0.250M each for 120, 140, 160, 170 innings. $0.375M each for 180, 190 IP. $0.5M for 200 IP
        • roster bonuses: $0.375M each for 90, 120 days on active roster without injury to right arm. $0.5M each for 150, 170 days
    1. glunn's Avatar
      glunn -
      Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
      Marcum

      • 1 year/$4M (2013)
        • signed by NY Mets as a free agent 1/13
        • performance bonuses: $0.250M each for 120, 140, 160, 170 innings. $0.375M each for 180, 190 IP. $0.5M for 200 IP
        • roster bonuses: $0.375M each for 90, 120 days on active roster without injury to right arm. $0.5M each for 150, 170 days

      Thanks for posting this.

      Based on what you and jokin have posted, it looks like Marcum's incentives kick in sooner and more generous than Lannan's. Can we all at least agree that we would swap Correia and his contract for either Markum or Lannan and his contract even if all incentives are earned?
    1. mako83's Avatar
      mako83 -
      Would any of those three have signed here. Market matters for these boys.
    1. Oxtung's Avatar
      Oxtung -
      Quote Originally Posted by mako83 View Post
      Would any of those three have signed here. Market matters for these boys.
      I don't think anyone can say for sure about those three specifically but there were a ton of pitchers available this offseason with better track records than what we signed. Which I think was jokin's larger point (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) If you'd like to rehash the FA market from mid September listen to this Gleeman and the Geek episode where they break down the available starters.

      Gleeman and The Geek - Minnesota Twins Podcast
    1. 3up3down's Avatar
      3up3down -
      seth, I know you are a fan of hendriks, I would like to know why in your opinion is he being given so many chances? In years past i have seen projected top of the rotation guys get alot of chances but i dont think in the 30 years i have been doing my thing in baseball i have ever seen a guy with avg stuff get this much opportunity , he is basically being given the #5 spot. a guy like gibson ,top of the rotation stuff ,top prospect, those are guys that get every opportunity to succeed...i have been in ft myers & i see hendriks,devries gibson & walters competing for the 5 spot , and 1 will make the team out of camp to fill in for diamond 1 start.. right now it should be devries spot he pitched well last season & he has been great this spring, walters is having a good spring but his walks are a concern, when he was in college his control was plus , his pitches look good but his control has got to be better. deduno could be in the mix but if he is not here he is not in the conversation doesnt matter what he does in the WBC & once they get to rochester its all even & the guy that is pitching the best will be the 1st promoted..i just think these last 3 weeks the starts shoud go to devries & walters, hendriks has had his shot this spring & he is getting out pitched buy a couple of guys.
    1. Seth Stohs's Avatar
      Seth Stohs -
      Quote Originally Posted by 3up3down View Post
      seth, I know you are a fan of hendriks, I would like to know why in your opinion is he being given so many chances? In years past i have seen projected top of the rotation guys get alot of chances but i dont think in the 30 years i have been doing my thing in baseball i have ever seen a guy with avg stuff get this much opportunity , he is basically being given the #5 spot. a guy like gibson ,top of the rotation stuff ,top prospect, those are guys that get every opportunity to succeed...i have been in ft myers & i see hendriks,devries gibson & walters competing for the 5 spot , and 1 will make the team out of camp to fill in for diamond 1 start.. right now it should be devries spot he pitched well last season & he has been great this spring, walters is having a good spring but his walks are a concern, when he was in college his control was plus , his pitches look good but his control has got to be better. deduno could be in the mix but if he is not here he is not in the conversation doesnt matter what he does in the WBC & once they get to rochester its all even & the guy that is pitching the best will be the 1st promoted..i just think these last 3 weeks the starts shoud go to devries & walters, hendriks has had his shot this spring & he is getting out pitched buy a couple of guys.
      A year ago, Hendriks was ranked anywhere from #3 to #6 Twins prospect. Yes, that does somewhat speak to the farm system being down last year and rocketing forward this year, but it also speaks to what Hendriks did. In 2010, he pitched in Beloit and Ft. Myers and was dominant. In 2011, he pitched great for New Britain, pretty well for Rochester, and then due to injury, he made a couple of starts with the Twins. He was the minor league pitcher of the year. In 2012, he was very good in Rochester, and really struggled with the Twins, as a 23 year old. No shame in that! This spring, he had three really good starts where the coaching staff was raving about his improvements, and then the rough start most recently on the day when the wind is blowing out. he's still just 24. He throws 90-93, has a good CB and a good CU. His control is traditionally quite good. He's aggressive. Sounds like a solid #3 starter to me. Certainly not a guy to give up on after his Age 23 season.

      De Vries just turned 28, touches 90 and has a good CB.
      Gibson is absolutely a top prospect (ranking anywhere from #5-#7 depending on the source) and he will be very good.

      And, by the way... good job of (hopefully) changing the subject away from players that aren't in the Twins organization!
    1. 3up3down's Avatar
      3up3down -
      seth, yea the topic was headed in the wrong direction..

      i agree with you on some parts, gibson is good & he is coming, not out of camp but he will be there this year & be in the rotation for a long time..he is a top of the rotation guy.

      on devries , does his age matter, the only thing his age makes him is not a prospect & he never was a prospect, he is just getting the job done , isnt that what matters.

      you did not mention walters but he like hendrks was a pitcher of the year, cruised thru the minors & just didnt have opportunity in st louis, he had a great opportunity last year & came up injured

      on hendriks, what he did in A & AA ball means absolutely nothing, if you have decent off speed stuff you will sail thru the lower levels, now what he has done at AAA is absolutely amazing & thats why he has gotten his opportunity. but cmon how many starts has he had in the bigs, its beginning to not be a small sample size, he is more 88-91 just like devries & walters, his CB &CU grade as below avg to maybe avg, definately not #3 starter stuff...and i have seen his starts , a couple were not bad but there were some balls squared up & i know runs scored on a ball in the sun but its what he did after that , he lost it for a couple of batters , and i have heard the coaches comments before those are confidence boosters hoping that it finally gets thru..the wind was blowing out the other day but i know your not saying those were wind aided , they were all legit , & all the pitchers pitched with the wind blowing out , if your a GB pitcher keep the ball on the ground that way it dont fly over the fence..

      i hope you know i am not argueing with you & i respect your opinion , i know you have seen these guys ..i just wanted hear your explanation..

      and i have not given up on hendriks.
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