• Twins to roll with Vance Worley for Opener

    Minnesota Twins manager Ron Gardenhire confirmed a floating rumor this afternoon that Vance Worley will be indeed be the Twins’ Opening Day starter.

    The 25-year-old right-hander, who had tossed five innings of seven hit, two run ball with five strikeouts this afternoon, has had an up-and-down spring, amassing a 7.36 ERA coming off a season in which he had minor clean-up in his pitching elbow. Still, with Mike Pelfrey still inconsistent due to his Tommy John recovery, Worley appears to be the best option to take on Justin Verlander and the Detroit Tigers on Monday.

    While Worley may not be of Verlanderian caliber, the announcement brings to an end this sad graphic which was displayed on the Twins’ website:


    Worley’s methods include an array of pitches, none of which missed bats at a high frequency, and his chief method of achieving a striking out is to get hitters looking. A year ago, Worley pitched 133 innings in 23 starts, with a 6-9 record and a 4.20 ERA in addition to a 107-to-47 strikeouts-to-walks ratio before being shut down with elbow tenderness.

    Following Wednesday’s game, Gardenhire told reporters that he expects the new acquisition to reach the 200-inning plateau in 2013.
    Comments 36 Comments
    1. ashburyjohn's Avatar
      ashburyjohn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
      I guess what I'm saying is obviously there is no way to know if they saw something in Worley that they didn't like, but to me its enough to raise at least a little bit of a red flag. I don't think it can just be dismissed.
      Almost every personnel decision could be seen in this light. For every trade, there's another team's scouts who gave it the green light to give up the stud your scouts say to get. For every draft pick except #1, there is a team ahead of you whose scouts said not to pick the guy your scouts want. For every free agent you succeed in signing to an offer, there are 29 teams' scouts who evidently weren't as high on him to offer as much. Ultimately, you can pay attention to the red flags, but trust in your scouts more than the other guys'.
    1. Mr. Brooks's Avatar
      Mr. Brooks -
      Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
      Almost every personnel decision could be seen in this light. For every trade, there's another team's scouts who gave it the green light to give up the stud your scouts say to get. For every draft pick except #1, there is a team ahead of you whose scouts said not to pick the guy your scouts want. For every free agent you succeed in signing to an offer, there are 29 teams' scouts who evidently weren't as high on him to offer as much. Ultimately, you can pay attention to the red flags, but trust in your scouts more than the other guys'.
      I hear what you are saying, but guys who have already made 60 big league starts are a little different than prospects or draft picks.
      In a case like this, there is no way that your scouts can know as much as their scouts, given that they get to see what he does in BP sessions, what kind of person he is, how dedicated he is, all that stuff.
    1. RodneyKline's Avatar
      RodneyKline -
      I agree that the farm system looks better and Terry Ryan did a nice job on that but I don't get why everyone thinks that 2015 and beyond looks so great. These are still long shot prospects and TR has proven that he is too cheap to fill in the gaps with good free agents and/or pay to keep the young guys that do beat the odds. Until TR realizes that you get what you pay for and stops the 100% dumpster dive strategy, the team will not be competitive again.
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
      I like the pieces we have for 2015 and beyond, but I fail to see how we've improved as a whole for 2013.
      I see places we've improved, but I see other places we've gotten worse.
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by RodneyKline View Post
      I agree that the farm system looks better and Terry Ryan did a nice job on that but I don't get why everyone thinks that 2015 and beyond looks so great. These are still long shot prospects and TR has proven that he is too cheap to fill in the gaps with good free agents and/or pay to keep the young guys that do beat the odds. Until TR realizes that you get what you pay for and stops the 100% dumpster dive strategy, the team will not be competitive again.
      Except for the last time he used that strategy to win four division titles in five years.

      There's a lot to dislike about Ryan's strategy but to say he will never field a competitive team is foolish. He did it once. There's no reason he can't do it again.
    1. Mr. Brooks's Avatar
      Mr. Brooks -
      Quote Originally Posted by RodneyKline View Post
      I agree that the farm system looks better and Terry Ryan did a nice job on that but I don't get why everyone thinks that 2015 and beyond looks so great. These are still long shot prospects and TR has proven that he is too cheap to fill in the gaps with good free agents and/or pay to keep the young guys that do beat the odds. Until TR realizes that you get what you pay for and stops the 100% dumpster dive strategy, the team will not be competitive again.
      Yes, all prospects, by themselves, are longshots. But, its a numbers game. Just like there is no way that all of them will pan out, there is also no way that all of them will fail.

      IMO, we have about 16 or 17 guys in our system right now that have the upside to be either every day lineup guys, starting rotation pitchers, or solid BP arms.
      Even if less than 1/3 of these guys pan out, that should be 4 or 5 solid big leaguers who are costing the minimum, that should be a good start to build around.
    1. ashburyjohn's Avatar
      ashburyjohn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
      I hear what you are saying, but guys who have already made 60 big league starts are a little different than prospects or draft picks.
      In a case like this, there is no way that your scouts can know as much as their scouts, given that they get to see what he does in BP sessions, what kind of person he is, how dedicated he is, all that stuff.
      And I guess if I'm hearing what you're saying, one would never make a trade with another team for a player who's been in the pros for more than a year.
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      still great seats available for the home opener. Section 114, row 13 has two seats available through the Twins MLB ticket section...
      Do those come with seat warmers?
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by ThePuck View Post
      'We've got another top of the rotation type pitcher coming in this summer's draft which should round out our 2014/2015 rotation...'

      I wouldn't bet any money on that...
      Absolutely this. I'll believe that the Twins will draft a projected-over-slot SP when I see it.
    1. Mr. Brooks's Avatar
      Mr. Brooks -
      Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
      And I guess if I'm hearing what you're saying, one would never make a trade with another team for a player who's been in the pros for more than a year.
      No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
      I don't know how I can be much clearer about it, so I'll try just repeating what I said a few posts ago, which was something along the lines of:
      It's probably nothing, but to me it raises at least a little bit of a red flag, at least enough that it can't be completely dismissed.

      I don't understand why statements made on this site are assumed to be meant as one extreme or another.

      If I make a statement as simple as, "I have no problem with Butera, but I certainly don't see how its any big loss if we were to lose him.", people take that to mean that I hate Butera, and think he doesn't belong on the roster.

      If I make a statement as simple as, "The fact that Phillies were willing to give up on him so soon, makes me wonder IF there could be something they saw that leads them to believe he isn't going to work out.", it gets taken as if I'm saying, "The fact that the Phillies traded a young pitcher MUST mean that they know he's going to be terrible."

      Huge difference between me thinking it COULD be a small red flag, and thinking it absolutely means something.
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post

      I don't understand why statements made on this site are assumed to be meant as one extreme or another.


      If I make a statement as simple as, "The fact that Phillies were willing to give up on him so soon, makes me wonder IF there could be something they saw that leads them to believe he isn't going to work out.", it gets taken as if I'm saying, "The fact that the Phillies traded a young pitcher MUST mean that they know he's going to be terrible."

      Huge difference between me thinking it COULD be a small red flag, and thinking it absolutely means something.
      Straw men don't get built on their own accord...
    1. ashburyjohn's Avatar
      ashburyjohn -
      Quote Originally Posted by fairweather View Post
      flop-sweat?
      Urban Dictionary: flop sweat
    1. ashburyjohn's Avatar
      ashburyjohn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
      No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
      I don't know how I can be much clearer about it,
      All right, my brother, maybe I'm being unfair, so let me go back to the first thing you said in this thread, which started me toward framing a response:

      > For me, (and I'm not even "down" on him, more "not sold on him") I just get a little nervous that there is a reason why Philly was so quick to give up on him so soon.

      So "a little nervous" isn't really understatement, you do mean only a little.

      Still, would you ever *not* say something like this about *any* prospect the Twins would ever trade for? Are you a little nervous about Alex Meyer, that there is a reason Washington was so quick to give up on him?

      Why shouldn't these teams be "a little nervous" that the Twins scouts have spotted a small tweak that can be made to turn these pitchers into even more than they have shown so far?
    1. Mr. Brooks's Avatar
      Mr. Brooks -
      Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
      All right, my brother, maybe I'm being unfair, so let me go back to the first thing you said in this thread, which started me toward framing a response:

      > For me, (and I'm not even "down" on him, more "not sold on him") I just get a little nervous that there is a reason why Philly was so quick to give up on him so soon.

      So "a little nervous" isn't really understatement, you do mean only a little.

      Still, would you ever *not* say something like this about *any* prospect the Twins would ever trade for? Are you a little nervous about Alex Meyer, that there is a reason Washington was so quick to give up on him?

      Why shouldn't these teams be "a little nervous" that the Twins scouts have spotted a small tweak that can be made to turn these pitchers into even more than they have shown so far?
      1) Correct, I was not understating, I literally meant just a little.

      2) No, I woudnt look at Meyer the same way. Meyer was purely a prospect, has never thrown an MLB pitch.
      Many GM's look at prospects as "currency", they don't view them as "players" yet. And the Nats are loaded with young power arms, Meyer was a luxury.
      To me, if Worley is what he is being presented as, then he's not just a "luxury" to the Phillies. Halladay was hurt and ineffective last year, and is nearing the end of his career. Cliff Lee is getting up there as well, and the Phillies have questionable pitching prospects. The closest thing they have to mlb ready is Pettitbone, and he's a middle to back of the rotation starter at best.

      3) Sure, other teams fans might be a little nervous that we gave up on Revere so quick, maybe a little nervous that we know something about Span that we are not saying, etc.
      But I'm a Twins fan, not a Nats or Phillies fan, so that is not my concern.
    1. Riverbrian's Avatar
      Riverbrian -
      I'm nervous about any player acquired in a trade.

      If there is a player that you shouldn't be nervous about... Teams tend to not trade them. They hang on to them with all their might.
    1. crarko's Avatar
      crarko -
      I'm not nervous at all. Worley will do just fine. He won't beat Verlander on Monday, but he'll do OK this year. The kid's got moxie.
    1. diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
      diehardtwinsfan -
      You have to give up something of value to get something of value. Personally, I didn't value Revere all that high and would have been thrilled to get just May for him. The Phillies apparently didnt' feel the same way. Worley is an established major leaguer with two seasons of experience and a decent ML K rate (and I'd also note the K rate improved in the late minors). I don't think anyone expects him to be an ace, but he could be a #3 type pitcher for us over the next 4 years at a minimum, which is very valuable. Given his success at this level already, I'd say the risk for a guy like Worley of achieving that is relatively low. The risk for May, on the other hand, is very high based largely on his inability to consistently throw strikes. May definitely has a higher ceiling, but there's a decent chance he never makes it. Ryan essentially took on two projects... a low risk one and a high risk one.
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