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  • Twins Trade Doumit to Braves

    This afternoon, the Twins made a trade with the Atlanta Braves. The Twins sent catcher/DH/outfielder Ryan Doumit to Atlanta in exchange for LHP Sean Gilmartin.

    The Braves will take on the entire $3.5 million of Doumit's 2014 contract which helps the Twins as they look to continue adding players. It also opens up a 40 man roster spot because Gilmartin is not yet on the that roster.

    Doumit came to the Twins before the 2012 season. In his first season, he hit .275/.320/.461 with 34 doubles, 18 homers and 75 RBI. In 2013, he dropped to .247/.314/.396 with 28 doubles, 14 homers and 55 RBI. He spent time as the team's backup catcher, but also was a primary designated hitter and spent some time in the corner outfield positions.

    He did miss time with concussion symptoms in the 2013 season and has talked about wanted to not catch (or at least catch less often) which makes the move to the National League interesting.

    The Twins had great interest in Sean Gilmartin before the 2011 draft. He was taken with the 28th overall pick in the draft, two picks before the Twins selected Levi Michael.

    Gilmartin, a 23 year old who went to Florida State, moved up the Braves system quickly. Last year, he made 17 starts for AAA Gwinnett. He went 3-8 with a 5.75 ERA, though he missed time with injury. He will not need to be added to the 40 man roster until after the 2014 season. Here is a huge scouting report on Gilmartin.

    Gilmartin graduated from Crespi Carmelite HS in Encino, California. That is the same high school that Twins third baseman Trevor Plouffe is from.

    When the Twins signed Jason Kubel last week to a minor league contract, the writing was on the wall that Doumit would likely be traded. The two are really DHs who can play in the corner outfield spots.

    With the $3.5 million saved, the Twins could continue their search for more starting pitching or they could turn their attention to the offense.

    The Twins busy, exciting offseason continues to be eventful! What's next?
    Comments 203 Comments
    1. notoriousgod71's Avatar
      notoriousgod71 -
      Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
      I would have given Doumit away to clear roster space, I'm not sure what the gripe is. I'm not a Gilmartin fan, but still I love this. Just because I don't think the guy has much of a ceiling, I can recognize that others see his potential. Besides, getting a pitcher who made it to AAA in only two professional years seems more impressive than the Twins stable of pitchers who took closer to a decade to get there.

      Besides, Jonathan Mayo still ranks him the Braves #4 prospect. That seems high to me but so what? The Twins are lucky to get a top #15 prospect for Doumit.
      While Doumit had very little value to the Twins because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have, Gilmartin has that same little value because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have.

      Basically it's just cutting salary which doesn't get me excited as a fan.
    1. biggentleben's Avatar
      biggentleben -
      Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
      Besides, Jonathan Mayo still ranks him the Braves #4 prospect. That seems high to me but so what? The Twins are lucky to get a top #15 prospect for Doumit.
      Mayo hasn't updated his rankings since preseason.

      Gilmartin was #14 in John Sickels' top 20 and in the rankings the site I write for put together.
    1. tcarlic's Avatar
      tcarlic -
      Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
      Not sure who had him top 5, but it would be someone who valued "close to majors" over "upside". The comparison is apt as Gilmartin has lost a LOT from the guy he was pre-draft as has Wimmers.
      Baseball America and MLB.com had him in the top 5.
    1. gunnarthor's Avatar
      gunnarthor -
      John Sickels wrote this about Gilmartin two weeks ago:
      14) Sean Gilmartin, LHP, Grade C+: Ugly season in Triple-A (5.74 ERA, 112 hits in 91 innings) was marred by shoulder problems. If healthy, profiles as a strike-throwing fourth starter who gets by on feel and moxie rather than pure stuff.

      Twins have been linked to him for a while now - since the draft - so they must have some pretty strong scouting reports on him. It's a sensible move. If he gives us one Diamond like season, it's a win. It'd be great if every pitcher was Alex Meyer but they can't all be. Gilmartin is reasonably close to ML ready.
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
      While Doumit had very little value to the Twins because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have, Gilmartin has that same little value because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have.

      Basically it's just cutting salary which doesn't get me excited as a fan.
      Big difference.

      A major league team has 11-12 pitchers on a roster, while only 1-3 DH/Backup DH types at most.

      Pitching is always at a premium.
    1. Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
      Jeremy Nygaard -
      I remember the 2011 draft unfolding and, as the Twins approached their pick at 30, being really unhappy about them potentially taking Gilmartin. I knew they liked him and he totally fit what they did in the draft. When he went at 28, I breathed a huge sigh of relief... and then they took Levi Michael.

      The Braves went on to give Gilmartin $1.134m as a signing bonus and got a pitcher that was considered near major-league ready by the end of his first full season.

      Yes, Gilmartin was brutal in 2013 and doesn't profile as the same pitcher he did a year ago, but the Twins got him when his value was low and were able to get the Braves to take Doumit's full salary back? That move is impossible for Twins fans not to like.
    1. halfchest's Avatar
      halfchest -
      Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
      Not sure who had him top 5, but it would be someone who valued "close to majors" over "upside". The comparison is apt as Gilmartin has lost a LOT from the guy he was pre-draft as has Wimmers.
      oh just Fangraphs, BA (actually #4) and MLB.com Jerod Mayo. No one who knows anything.

      You may be right that he's not worth much but he has the potential too. This from mlbtraderumors is interesting too.

      "Gilmartin struggled through injuries and posted a 5.06 ERA across three levels in 2013, averaging 6.9 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9 in a total of 105 innings. Selected with the No. 28 overall pick in the 2011 draft, Gilmartin draws praise for his polish from both BA and MLB.com. BA writes that his 89-91 mph fastball has good movement and is complemented by a plus changeup and a slider with "sharp, late break." According to Mayo, "[Gilmartin's] ceiling is somewhat limited, but he's not far from being ready to step in as a middle-of-the-rotation type in the big leagues."

      Now if that Mayo quote is to be believed then this is a great move for the Twins a mid rotation guy is nothing to sneeze at considering the Twins have just committed like 85 million to essentially two 3-4 starters (Hughes/Pelfrey) and one 2-3 starter (Nolasco) this offseason. That might be overvaluing these three guys two It could be argued none of them are better than 3 type starter. Anyhow, I like the move, don't see the Wimmers comp. Sure both have lost value but Wimmers almost never had it. At least Gilmartin had a solid 2012 campaign.
    1. Seth Stohs's Avatar
      Seth Stohs -
      You can view the page at http://www.twinsdaily.com/content.ph...s-Trade-Doumit
    1. Brandon's Avatar
      Brandon -
      The thing about Gilmartin is he is not out of options come spring so if he gets sent down big deal. He will likely replace Worely or Diamond after springtraining when they get DFA'd because they have no remaining options. good move to pre-emptively replace the depth.
    1. notoriousgod71's Avatar
      notoriousgod71 -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      FWIW: Blackburn gave the Twins 5.4 WAR over two years, and Diamond gave them a 2.3 WAR a year ago. If he equals either one of those guys it would be a great thing frankly. One or two years as a CHEAP #5 has value. (It can allow you to not sign veterans for $5-$6 mil to fill those spots)
      I've mentioned my hatred of WAR many times. Blackburn was somehow a positive WAR player in 2010 also despite his 5.42 ERA and terrible peripherals across the board. The scary thing about pitchers like this are that one fluke season can fool the Twins brass into thinking they are viable pitchers and then we are stuck watching them for another three years while there are better candidates.
    1. mike wants wins's Avatar
      mike wants wins -
      Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
      While Doumit had very little value to the Twins because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have, Gilmartin has that same little value because he is so similar to a half dozen other players we have.

      Basically it's just cutting salary which doesn't get me excited as a fan.
      and it clears a roster space. And it makes it more likely a better backup catcher will be around. And it makes it more likely the DH will be better than Doumit.

      I do agree, if all it does is save money, that will bother me as a fan.....but that is not all it does.
    1. Boom Boom's Avatar
      Boom Boom -
      Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
      Darren Wolfson ‏@DarrenWolfson 8m Confirmed: #Braves taking all of Doumit's $3.5M. This is a great move by the #MNTwins.
      Not sure why Doogie would care that much about the $3.5 mil to call it a "great" trade. It's not like the Twins needed to free up that money to make a big splash.
    1. PseudoSABR's Avatar
      PseudoSABR -
      Quote Originally Posted by biggentleben View Post
      Oy, no. Not at all. I may love the Braves, but I don't love every move they make and every guy wearing their uniform. I'm not a Doumit fan at all, but I'm not a Gilmartin fan at all either, so it's a wash for me, I guess.
      I wasn't implying that, so much as suggesting that you're overvaluing Doumit's worth however much you think Gilmartin is a failed prospect. I, for one, didn't think the Twins could give Doumit away. Gilmartin might turn out to be nothing, but perhaps the Twins see some value in back of the rotation innings over the next couple years (as he's not on the roster, and no options have been used), which the Twins have had historically awful depth lately.
    1. PseudoSABR's Avatar
      PseudoSABR -
      Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
      Not sure why Doogie would care that much about the $3.5 mil to call it a "great" trade. It's not like the Twins needed to free up that money to make a big splash.
      It's a great move, because Doogie is implying that Doumit is not worth his contract--that the Twins were able to obtain anything at all without having to kick in cash (whether they needed to for budget reasons or not) is an obvious win.

      Not quite as good as the Butera trade, but still some excellent gamesmanship by trader terry.
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Per MLBTR:

      Ben, your comparisons to Wimmers are very disengenous, it says below that he still is #4 in a well respected list, and was still #10 for Baseball America. Also they say they think he can be a middle of rotation starter.

      Additionally the Braves are taking on the WHOLE contract.

      Gilmartin, 23, entered the season ranked as the Braves' No. 4 prospect (per Baseball America) heading into the 2013 season. Though he suffered a down year, BA still ranked him 10th among Braves prospects, and MLB.com's Jonathan Mayo kept his ranking strong at No. 4 despite the poor season.

      Gilmartin struggled through injuries and posted a 5.06 ERA across three levels in 2013, averaging 6.9 K/9 and 2.8 BB/9 in a total of 105 innings. Selected with the No. 28 overall pick in the 2011 draft, Gilmartin draws praise for his polish from both BA and MLB.com. BA writes that his 89-91 mph fastball has good movement and is complemented by a plus changeup and a slider with "sharp, late break." According to Mayo, "[Gilmartin's] ceiling is somewhat limited, but he's not far from being ready to step in as a middle-of-the-rotation type in the big leagues."
    1. DuluthFan's Avatar
      DuluthFan -
      This trade actually achieves several things. 1) It clears an immediate 40 man roster spot for the Pelfrey signing. 2) It clears out a corner outfield/DH position player of which the Twins have too many. 3) It provides depth at AAA for the possibility of losing any of Deduno/Diamond/Worley who are all out of options and must clear waivers (dfa'd) to be sent down. 4) Clears a possible spot for a free agent catcher signing (but not roster spot). 5) Clears additional salary for potential signing of additional players.
    1. notoriousgod71's Avatar
      notoriousgod71 -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Big difference.

      A major league team has 11-12 pitchers on a roster, while only 1-3 DH/Backup DH types at most.

      Pitching is always at a premium.
      Good pitching is at a premium. I couldn't care less if that fifth, sixth, seventh starter is Diamond, Gilmartin, Johnson, etc. They're all the same guy.

      As an explanation I don't hate the trade (even though it likely appears that way). I just find it pointless and yes, I'd rather have Doumit.
    1. SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
      SpiritofVodkaDave -
      Quote Originally Posted by notoriousgod71 View Post
      I've mentioned my hatred of WAR many times. Blackburn was somehow a positive WAR player in 2010 also despite his 5.42 ERA and terrible peripherals across the board. The scary thing about pitchers like this are that one fluke season can fool the Twins brass into thinking they are viable pitchers and then we are stuck watching them for another three years while there are better candidates.
      Blackburn was 0.2 in 2010, basically replacement level.

      Also, I think we can put this "well the Twins did this in the past, so they will do it in the future" meme that is so popular here. People said the Twins would never spend in free agency (which was incorrect), they would only go after non upside guys (which was incorrect)

      Just because the Twins gave Blackburn a foolish extension doesn't mean they will do it again if Gilmartin happens to have a solid year or two. They certainly didn't give Diamond an extension after his nice 2012, and they didn't have a long leash on him last year either.
    1. Boom Boom's Avatar
      Boom Boom -
      Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
      It's a great move, because Doogie is implying that Doumit is not worth his contract--that the Twins were able to obtain anything at all without having to kick in cash (whether they needed to for budget reasons or not) is an obvious win.

      Not quite as good as the Butera trade, but still some excellent gamesmanship by trader terry.
      Sure, Doumit isn't worth his contract, but who is? $3.5 mil is a manageable sum and the Twins already had cash to spare if they wanted to spend more. Doumit was redundant, I understand, but Doumit at $3.5 mil won't kill you.

      It's not a bad trade as a salary dump, but "great" is an exaggeration IMO.
    1. notoriousgod71's Avatar
      notoriousgod71 -
      Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
      Blackburn was 0.2 in 2010, basically replacement level.

      Also, I think we can put this "well the Twins did this in the past, so they will do it in the future" meme that is so popular here. People said the Twins would never spend in free agency (which was incorrect), they would only go after non upside guys (which was incorrect)

      Just because the Twins gave Blackburn a foolish extension doesn't mean they will do it again if Gilmartin happens to have a solid year or two. They certainly didn't give Diamond an extension after his nice 2012, and they didn't have a long leash on him last year either.
      I just don't see upside in Nolasco (although I applaud the Twins for making an effort and signing a pitcher to a big contract), Hughes, Pelfrey, or Gilmartin.

      They stuck with Diamond 24 starts too long.
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