• Outrage Over Medical Staff is Overblown

    Last week, Denard Span finally landed on the disabled list one day before rosters expanded and 18 days after initially suffering a shoulder injury back in early August. Not the medical staff's finest hour, probably, but the uproar I saw amongst casual fans and hardcores alike sort of left me dumbfounded.

    My Twitter timeline exploded with rants against the team doctors. Commenters here at Twins Daily vented in similar fashion. Clearly folks are fed up with the strange injury situations that continue to arise with this club. That's understandable. Still, I'm wondering if we haven't reached a point where people are jumping the gun a bit to crucify the medical staff for every mishap.

    Here's a fact: medicine is an inexact science.

    Here's another: the members of the Twins' medical staff are highly trained experts who have reached an elite level in their profession. Most of them have been around for more than the past two years, yet the implication seems to be that since the start of 2011 they've just forgotten how to properly diagnose injuries.

    The truth is that this staff made mistakes before 2011 – as does every other staff in the league – and they went largely unnoticed because the Twins weren't one of the worst teams in baseball. My sense is that the higher incidence of injuries in the past two years and the club's struggles overall are causing a lot of people to exaggerate the role of the medical staff in lingering ailments and goofy DL management. It wouldn't be a unique case.

    As an example, let's look at this latest situation with Span. The fact that it took the doctors so long to properly diagnose his sprained sternoclavicular joint is concerning, but the outfielder didn't make their jobs easier by backing out of an MRI due to claustrophobia. Additionally, we simply don't know whether the Twins would have shown the same patience and deference to Span if the games actually mattered and they were legitimately hurting themselves by tying up that 25th roster spot. They weren't.

    Sure, there have been examples where the team's medical staff has pretty clearly erred. Those extend back past 2011. Like I said, it's an inexact science. But frustration seems to have some people believing that we're dealing with a bunch of quacks who have completely lost the ability to competently do their jobs, all while the numerous execs running the organization have failed to notice or care.

    Pretty ridiculous notion born out of a scapegoat mentality, if you ask me.

    To be clear, I'm not saying that the Twins' medical staff compares well to the rest of the league. They might even be among the worst. But I don't believe we have the evidence to make that assessment. Judging a doctor's performance isn't like judging a pitcher, or hitter, or manager, or GM. Each situation is unique and there are lot more factors in play than some would assume.

    Maybe after this season ends the front office will clear out the entire medical staff and bring in new faces across the board. I'd say that's unlikely, and I doubt it would meaningfully resolve any of the real problems plaguing this organization.
    This article was originally published in blog: Outrage Over Medical Staff is Overblown started by Nick Nelson
    Comments 76 Comments
    1. BHtwins's Avatar
      BHtwins -
      It hasnt been just 2 years of complaining, its really been 7 or 8 of grumbling and 5-6 of some pretty serious questioning.

      Its not just Twins fanatics either. The Twins medical staff is pretty poorly respected among the agent community as well. Some players agents wont let a primary diagnosis come from them at all.
    1. USAFChief's Avatar
      USAFChief -
      I agree with BH above...this isn't a two year thing. The Twins handling of injuries in general, and the DL in particular, has been, at the least, questionable for years now. It cost them games when they were good, it's costing them games now. I don't think there can be any denying it. Whether the primary culprit is the medical staff, or the front office, I'm not sure, but to pretend this is "overblown" or worse, is poppycock.

      You don't have to be an auto mechanic to see cars coming out of the same repair shop still broken, time after time, to decide there's a problem there. You don't have to be a doctor to look at the Twins mishandling of multiple injury situations, over a period of years, to decide there's a problem ​there.
    1. Don't Feed the Greed Guy's Avatar
      Don't Feed the Greed Guy -
      Quote Originally Posted by BHtwins View Post
      It hasnt been just 2 years of complaining, its really been 7 or 8 of grumbling and 5-6 of some pretty serious questioning.

      Its not just Twins fanatics either. The Twins medical staff is pretty poorly respected among the agent community as well. Some players agents wont let a primary diagnosis come from them at all.
      You need to document your claim.

      1. Please get some quotes from "the agent community" to substantiate your claim. Also, to other posters:
      2. Identify medical/sport medicine experts in order to confirm that the Twins medical staff have done something unethical or substandard.
      3. Quote present/former Twins ballplayers who have gone on record stating that members of the Twins medical staff aren't doing their jobs.

      The beauty of being a staff writer for the Stib or P.Press OR Twins Daily is working hard enough to validate your claims by confirming your sources. Otherwise, it's just a screed.

      Or, in the days when I worked making pizza's at Davanni's (we ran 1 and a half hours per pizza delivery during game 7 of the 1987 World Series) the creed was "Care, Work Hard, Have Fun" At Cedar/Riverside, a Sharpie changed the sign to read "Have Funk!"

      Under "work hard" I would encourage Twins Daily writers to do a little researcha and document your claims. Here's a helpful link http://www.easybib.com/

      Let's keep each other honest.
      Just sayin.
    1. JB_Iowa's Avatar
      JB_Iowa -
      Well, I won't pretend to document anything. But on the more than 2 years of complaining front, I remember absolutely screaming when Mr. Gardenhire kept putting Morneau in the line-up day after day in August/September 2009.

      I posted over and over that there was something clearly wrong with him. I wasn't sure if it was physical or mental but I knew that there was a problem -- that it wasn't an ordinary slump.

      And sure enough, after days and days and days of horrendous performance, they finally diagnosed the stress fracture in his back.

      I have to assume that a lot of this is on Morneau but I still don't understand why that situation went on for as long as it did.
    1. BHtwins's Avatar
      BHtwins -
      I'm not a staff writer for Strib or PP. I'm a poster on a message board. Im not getting paid to waste time.

      Pay me free lance rates and Ill find you at least 5 quotes from players over the last 18 months complaining about the Twins med staff blowing their diagnosis. The fact is I found them....but Im not citing them because I DONT CARE. You cite them if this matters to you.

      I'll find paragraphs of written angst from Joe Mauers torn meniscus taking too long. Weeks of written screed about shutting Liriano down to "rest" before he ultimately got TJ. Throw in some beautiful quotes of the staff questioning Grant Balfour's toughness when he complained of forearm tightness that ultimately turned into TJ. All of those are over 5 years ago. There are dozens of examples of Twins players getting 2nd and 3rd opinions and you'd have a tough time finding any major Twins player that had anything ortho done in-house.

      If you think things are great....then fantastic. I dont care, I stated my opinion, which in general is a hell of lot more interesting then regurgitated tripe.
    1. Nick Nelson's Avatar
      Nick Nelson -
      Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
      I'm only seeing the "fire em all" rhetoric from a select few - you used this same "overblown" response to me the other day when I expressed frustration with the handling of the DL. Now apparently that is "well warranted" - I'm not sure you're even clear what you think is being overblown.
      Well what exactly were you angry about? If it's the medical staff, then this article is aimed at you. If it's something else, then what? Who exactly is to blame for this repetitive pattern? To me, it seems like a few evenly distributed iffy decisions mixed with a whole lot of bad luck. I'm guessing the medical staff deserves some blame, is it the main problem? How would you know?

      Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
      I agree with BH above...this isn't a two year thing. The Twins handling of injuries in general, and the DL in particular, has been, at the least, questionable for years now.
      By what standard? Who here follows another team closely enough to really make an accurate and objective baseline comparison? I really feel like a lot of people do not understand just how mysterious medicine is. Injuries and illnesses get misdiagnosed all the time, in sports and in life. Someone above cited the example of Morneau playing through an injury back in 2009... do you realize how common that is? Players hide injuries because they want to play. Managers defer too quickly because that's how clubhouses are run. Much of this stuff is just baseball, and has nothing to do with the team doctors.

      It's a complicated issue and, to me, a low priority. I feel like we should be focused a lot more on figuring out how to put together a decent roster than complaining about an injured player tying up a meaningless roster spot for a last-place team. Injuries are just part of the game, and they're rarely a tidy affair.
    1. Badsmerf's Avatar
      Badsmerf -
      People need to stop acting like medical professionals are Gods that know how to send a rocket to the moon. I don't really care how much experience they have since I've seen plenty of experienced idiots in my lifetime. These people aren't untouchable. None of us know exactly what is going on because we are all on the outside looking in, but it sure doesn't look very good to me. Nick, you can account bad luck or whatever you want, but that is clearly turning the other cheek. I'm not sure if the Twins need to fire people, but anyone that doesn't admit something has to be done is in denial. Everyone should be kept to standard and there has been too many situations that leave questions unanswered to give anyone the benefit of the doubt at this point. Needless to say, I'm not a fan of this article for a number of reasons.
    1. Highabove's Avatar
      Highabove -
      Mr Greed,
      Did you see my direct quote from J.J. Hardy? I will give you more documentation of a Player complaint.
      Here is one from Pat Neshek
      On May 5th 2010, Phil Mackey reported that Pat Neshek had made the following statements on his Facebook Account.

      "Yeah it’s been a drag on me. Here’s what’s going on. I injured my finger about 3 weeks ago, got a cortisone shot in the finger and told to rest for a week. The pain never went away but my finger felt a little better. During the entire time throwing I have not felt that well out there playing catch (painful to grip and release the ball) and in games. I pitched with pain since the initial diagnosis said that it would go away and throwing a baseball would help it. Well, 3 weeks have passed and I’m still having trouble gripping a ball. (I went in for an MRI and to a hand specialist and learned that I was misdiagnosed.) My pain was coming from near the palm of my hand where my middle finger in my palm…called a pulley tendon. The best thing to help it is a direct injection of cortisone, rest, not to stretch it or use it doing things that put stress on it. To get a cortisone injection I need to wait at least 4 weeks after my last one. I had my last one 3 weeks ago. (I’m not happy with anything that has gone on especially when it could have been taken care of 3 weeks ago and was told the wrong info.)



    1. Shane Wahl's Avatar
      Shane Wahl -
      Well, I guess the only answer to this is to actually find out how other teams handle these situations and make the comparison with the Twins. That WOULD give us a sense of how bad the doctor-manager/coaches-players dynamic works with regard to these debacles. I think it is NOT a low priority . . . it only seems like that when the Twins are losing like this.
    1. OldManWinter's Avatar
      OldManWinter -
      Sometimes poor results are nothing more than bad luck.

      Most people I know do not own a perfect crystal ball so they have a real tough time knowing exactly what will happen in the future.

      Apparently though, this site is full of good folks with perfect crystal balls that permit them to judge the future exactly right every time.

      Baseball is a game to enjoy, don't over complicate it.
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
      Mr Greed,
      Did you see my direct quote from J.J. Hardy?
      Now I will give you one from Pat Neshek
      On May 5th 2010, Phil Mackey reported that Pat Neshek had made the following statements on his Facebook Account.

      "Yeah it’s been a drag on me. Here’s what’s going on. I injured my finger about 3 weeks ago, got a cortisone shot in the finger and told to rest for a week. The pain never went away but my finger felt a little better. During the entire time throwing I have not felt that well out there playing catch (painful to grip and release the ball) and in games. I pitched with pain since the initial diagnosis said that it would go away and throwing a baseball would help it. Well, 3 weeks have passed and I’m still having trouble gripping a ball. (I went in for an MRI and to a hand specialist and learned that I was misdiagnosed.) My pain was coming from near the palm of my hand where my middle finger in my palm…called a pulley tendon. The best thing to help it is a direct injection of cortisone, rest, not to stretch it or use it doing things that put stress on it. To get a cortisone injection I need to wait at least 4 weeks after my last one. I had my last one 3 weeks ago. (I’m not happy with anything that has gone on especially when it could have been taken care of 3 weeks ago and was told the wrong info.)

      I will put out another one tomorrow.

      Uh Ohhhh...

      This could get to be better than waiting for the next weekly installment of Breaking Bad. I've got a feeling that Highabove's Vince Gilligan-like sense of timing while breaking out a "quote a day" from disgruntled ex-Twins is going to break really real bad for the "pro-medical-ignorance-overblown-outrage-accusing-frustrated-casual-observers-of-being-quacks-camp."
    1. jokin's Avatar
      jokin -
      Quote Originally Posted by OldManWinter;51673[B View Post
      ]Sometimes poor results are nothing more than bad luck. [/B]

      Most people I know do not own a perfect crystal ball so they have a real tough time knowing exactly what will happen in the future.

      Apparently though, this site is full of good folks with perfect crystal balls that permit them to judge the future exactly right every time.

      Baseball is a game to enjoy, don't over complicate it.
      Except the Twins have defied the bad luck probabilites-threshold a long time ago. It's as if the Twins- to paraphrase Cream by way of blues great, Albert King- "didn't have bud luck, they'd have no luck at all.-
    1. Highabove's Avatar
      Highabove -
      Here is a recent statement from Carl Pavono

      On August 21st, the Pioneer Press Quoted Carl Pavono's comments regarding the Misdiagnosis of his shoulder injury.

      "It's too bad it took three months diagnose that," Pavano said from New York. "I could have been resting."
      Pavano hasn't pitched for the Twins since June 1 and scrapped a rehab start with Class A Fort Myers to see Altchek on Tuesday, Aug. 21. Twins doctors diagnosed Pavano with a strain in his shoulder capsule, but he said Altchek said the primary culprit is the bruise, which is causing inflammation and pain.
      "The good news is it doesn't require surgery," Pavano said. "I've had this in the past and gotten through it, and obviously I've pitched a lot since then. But as far as I'm concerned this whole season has been a failure on many levels, for myself, for the team. It's just kind of lousy that it took this long.


      Scott Baker
      On May 8th 2012, B.N. National Baseball editor Rob Neyer wrote about and quoted Baker following his TJ Surgery.

      While
      Scott Baker
      worked through elbow issues over the past two seasons, the Minnesota Twins right-hander heard the whispers both inside and outside Target Field.
      "I knew I wasn't crazy," Baker said Friday. "I knew there was some speculation that maybe I was babying it or taking it easy, but good grief. I did everything I possibly could to get better and to try to pitch with it. But that just wasn't going to happen."
      Baker battled pain in his elbow dating to 2010, and some urged him to try pitching through the pain. He was shut down for the season earlier this month and scheduled for surgery on his flexor pronator tendon. But once his arm was opened up, Dr. David Altchek made the decision that he needed Tommy John surgery to repair the ulnar collateral ligament.







    1. Don't Feed the Greed Guy's Avatar
      Don't Feed the Greed Guy -
      From the Freelance Editor's Desk:

      Mr. Highabove: Good work citing your claim: Sorry i missed the Hardy quote. The followups from Pavano, Neshek, and Baker substantiate your claim. That's good Journalism 101. Thank for the good reporting. You added to this thread.

      BHtwins, you write: "The Twins medical staff is pretty poorly respected among the agent community as well. Some players agents wont let a primary diagnosis come from them at all."

      Can you cite that? Something from the agent community?

      I still would like to hear more from the sports medicine community. One post from an orthopedic doc. Any physical/sports therapists, or other qualified medical professionals? What's your take?

      Sorry for being anal on the source thing, but I spent two years as a sports intern at a regional daily paper while in college. I hated it. Too many late nights waiting for the coaches to call in the Friday night scores between Dilworth-Glyndon-Felton and Fertile-Beltrami. And too much time proof-reading copy. But they taught me to document my sources. We can too.

      take care.
    1. Highabove's Avatar
      Highabove -
      I will put out a 5th Twins player.

      Jason Kubel
      Twins website September 27th 2011
      Kubel in mid September, commenting on his foot injury.

      "I don't like the way I went out and it's just been a frustrating season," Kubel said. "The initial thought [on May 30] was that it would be day to day and see how it goes, and it's still day to day now. But I guess it happens.
      (We didn't give it the proper rest and it lingered all year.")
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
      Mr Greed,
      Did you see my direct quote from J.J. Hardy? I will give you more documentation of a Player complaint.
      Here is one from Pat Neshek
      On May 5th 2010, Phil Mackey reported that Pat Neshek had made the following statements on his Facebook Account.

      "Yeah it’s been a drag on me. Here’s what’s going on. I injured my finger about 3 weeks ago, got a cortisone shot in the finger and told to rest for a week. The pain never went away but my finger felt a little better. During the entire time throwing I have not felt that well out there playing catch (painful to grip and release the ball) and in games. I pitched with pain since the initial diagnosis said that it would go away and throwing a baseball would help it. Well, 3 weeks have passed and I’m still having trouble gripping a ball. (I went in for an MRI and to a hand specialist and learned that I was misdiagnosed.) My pain was coming from near the palm of my hand where my middle finger in my palm…called a pulley tendon. The best thing to help it is a direct injection of cortisone, rest, not to stretch it or use it doing things that put stress on it. To get a cortisone injection I need to wait at least 4 weeks after my last one. I had my last one 3 weeks ago. (I’m not happy with anything that has gone on especially when it could have been taken care of 3 weeks ago and was told the wrong info.)

      On August 21st, the Pioneer Press Quoted Carl Pavono's comments regarding the Misdiagnosis of his shoulder injury.

      "It's too bad it took three months diagnose that," Pavano said from New York. "I could have been resting."
      Pavano hasn't pitched for the Twins since June 1 and scrapped a rehab start with Class A Fort Myers to see Altchek on Tuesday, Aug. 21. Twins doctors diagnosed Pavano with a strain in his shoulder capsule, but he said Altchek said the primary culprit is the bruise, which is causing inflammation and pain.
      "The good news is it doesn't require surgery," Pavano said. "I've had this in the past and gotten through it, and obviously I've pitched a lot since then. But as far as I'm concerned this whole season has been a failure on many levels, for myself, for the team. It's just kind of lousy that it took this long.

      Scott Baker
      On May 8th 2012, B.N. National Baseball editor Rob Neyer wrote about and quoted Baker following his TJ Surgery.

      While
      Scott Baker
      worked through elbow issues over the past two seasons, the Minnesota Twins right-hander heard the whispers both inside and outside Target Field.
      "I knew I wasn't crazy," Baker said Friday. "I knew there was some speculation that maybe I was babying it or taking it easy, but good grief. I did everything I possibly could to get better and to try to pitch with it. But that just wasn't going to happen."
      Baker battled pain in his elbow dating to 2010, and some urged him to try pitching through the pain. He was shut down for the season earlier this month and scheduled for surgery on his flexor pronator tendon. But once his arm was opened up, Dr. David Altchek made the decision that he needed Tommy John surgery to repair the ulnar collateral ligament.
      I don't think anyone here is saying the medical staff is without fault and some of those comments are certainly damning.

      But that information is still incomplete, especially if you're trying to make a case to fire the "Twins medical staff". Who were these doctors? Were they the same person? Were they even part of the Twins' medical staff? How many different people came to this same conclusion about that particular injury? Is "rest and rehab" a part of the training staff's job or does the medical staff make that call? Are those two groups the same thing? We know so little about both the medical profession and this portion of the Twins organization that we're still firing shots in the dark.
    1. Highabove's Avatar
      Highabove -
      Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
      Mr Greed,
      Did you see my direct quote from J.J. Hardy? I will give you more documentation of a Player complaint.
      Here is one from Pat Neshek
      On May 5th 2010, Phil Mackey reported that Pat Neshek had made the following statements on his Facebook Account.

      "Yeah it’s been a drag on me. Here’s what’s going on. I injured my finger about 3 weeks ago, got a cortisone shot in the finger and told to rest for a week. The pain never went away but my finger felt a little better. During the entire time throwing I have not felt that well out there playing catch (painful to grip and release the ball) and in games. I pitched with pain since the initial diagnosis said that it would go away and throwing a baseball would help it. Well, 3 weeks have passed and I’m still having trouble gripping a ball. (I went in for an MRI and to a hand specialist and learned that I was misdiagnosed.) My pain was coming from near the palm of my hand where my middle finger in my palm…called a pulley tendon. The best thing to help it is a direct injection of cortisone, rest, not to stretch it or use it doing things that put stress on it. To get a cortisone injection I need to wait at least 4 weeks after my last one. I had my last one 3 weeks ago. (I’m not happy with anything that has gone on especially when it could have been taken care of 3 weeks ago and was told the wrong info.)

      On August 21st, the Pioneer Press Quoted Carl Pavono's comments regarding the Misdiagnosis of his shoulder injury.

      "It's too bad it took three months diagnose that," Pavano said from New York. "I could have been resting."
      Pavano hasn't pitched for the Twins since June 1 and scrapped a rehab start with Class A Fort Myers to see Altchek on Tuesday, Aug. 21. Twins doctors diagnosed Pavano with a strain in his shoulder capsule, but he said Altchek said the primary culprit is the bruise, which is causing inflammation and pain.
      "The good news is it doesn't require surgery," Pavano said. "I've had this in the past and gotten through it, and obviously I've pitched a lot since then. But as far as I'm concerned this whole season has been a failure on many levels, for myself, for the team. It's just kind of lousy that it took this long.

      Scott Baker
      On May 8th 2012, B.N. National Baseball editor Rob Neyer wrote about and quoted Baker following his TJ Surgery.

      While
      Scott Baker
      worked through elbow issues over the past two seasons, the Minnesota Twins right-hander heard the whispers both inside and outside Target Field.
      "I knew I wasn't crazy," Baker said Friday. "I knew there was some speculation that maybe I was babying it or taking it easy, but good grief. I did everything I possibly could to get better and to try to pitch with it. But that just wasn't going to happen."
      Baker battled pain in his elbow dating to 2010, and some urged him to try pitching through the pain. He was shut down for the season earlier this month and scheduled for surgery on his flexor pronator tendon. But once his arm was opened up, Dr. David Altchek made the decision that he needed Tommy John surgery to repair the ulnar collateral ligament.
      I don't think anyone here is saying the medical staff is without fault and some of those comments are certainly damning.

      But that information is still incomplete, especially if you're trying to make a case to fire the "Twins medical staff". Who were these doctors? Were they the same person? Were they even part of the Twins' medical staff? How many different people came to this same conclusion about that particular injury? Is "rest and rehab" a part of the training staff's job or does the medical staff make that call? Are those two groups the same thing? We know so little about both the medical profession and this portion of the Twins organization that we're still firing shots in the dark.
      Yesterday I stated the following,
      "Comments by Players who have had issues with their treatment have been documented in the Print and Broadcast Media"

      Several Forum Members have requested documentation which supports such a claim.
      I have attempted to document the comments of five Twins Players.
      That's it.
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by Highabove View Post
      Yesterday, I stated that a number of Twins players were not happy with their Medical Treatment.
      Several Forum Members have requested documation which supports such a claim.
      I have attempted to document the comments of five Twins Players.
      That's it.
      My comments weren't necessarily aimed at you. Thanks for compiling those quotes, they definitely add to the conversation. I believe that there is something wrong with the Twins organization in regards to training and/or medical issues (or maybe even the front office itself). There are too many back-and-forths with players saying they expect a return on this date, miss it, and then end up hitting the DL with or without surgery. It's terribly inconsistent. Even JR has stated that it's something he planned to fix when he returned to the GM spot so you know it's something the organization is worried about.

      On the other hand, which injuries were borne out of negligence? Which were a simple misdiagnosis that any physician could have made? Which were the "at fault" injuries and which were nothing more than a dose of bad luck and/or player misinformation?

      Again, we don't know. If the front office does nothing over the next six months, I'll be disappointed in the lack of action (it's also possible they plan to change their internal procedures and we'll never know about it) but I'm also not going to go shooting my mouth off, pretending that I know about things that are far beyond my scope of knowledge.
    1. old nurse's Avatar
      old nurse -
      Quote Originally Posted by BHtwins View Post
      I'm not a staff writer for Strib or PP. I'm a poster on a message board. Im not getting paid to waste time.

      Pay me free lance rates and Ill find you at least 5 quotes from players over the last 18 months complaining about the Twins med staff blowing their diagnosis. The fact is I found them....but Im not citing them because I DONT CARE. You cite them if this matters to you.

      I'll find paragraphs of written angst from Joe Mauers torn meniscus taking too long. Weeks of written screed about shutting Liriano down to "rest" before he ultimately got TJ. Throw in some beautiful quotes of the staff questioning Grant Balfour's toughness when he complained of forearm tightness that ultimately turned into TJ. All of those are over 5 years ago. There are dozens of examples of Twins players getting 2nd and 3rd opinions and you'd have a tough time finding any major Twins player that had anything ortho done in-house.

      If you think things are great....then fantastic. I dont care, I stated my opinion, which in general is a hell of lot more interesting then regurgitated tripe.
      Opinion is one thing, claiming agents say things is another.
    1. Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
      Brock Beauchamp -
      Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by BHtwins View Post
      I'm not a staff writer for Strib or PP. I'm a poster on a message board. Im not getting paid to waste time.

      Pay me free lance rates and Ill find you at least 5 quotes from players over the last 18 months complaining about the Twins med staff blowing their diagnosis. The fact is I found them....but Im not citing them because I DONT CARE. You cite them if this matters to you.

      I'll find paragraphs of written angst from Joe Mauers torn meniscus taking too long. Weeks of written screed about shutting Liriano down to "rest" before he ultimately got TJ. Throw in some beautiful quotes of the staff questioning Grant Balfour's toughness when he complained of forearm tightness that ultimately turned into TJ. All of those are over 5 years ago. There are dozens of examples of Twins players getting 2nd and 3rd opinions and you'd have a tough time finding any major Twins player that had anything ortho done in-house.

      If you think things are great....then fantastic. I dont care, I stated my opinion, which in general is a hell of lot more interesting then regurgitated tripe.
      Opinion is one thing, claiming agents say things is another.
      Yeah... You can't claim that people have said and done all these things and then say "I don't feel like looking it up" when someone asks for quotations.

      But yes, "opinions" are often more interesting than "truth"... Just ask Fox News. Taking that position also makes it impossible for me to take you seriously because, for all I know, you're just making crap up and/or distorting reality to fit your talking points (again, like Fox News).
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