Does Nishi make this team?

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Over 20 million dollars spend on utility infielders with Punto's bad 2 year deal and now the awful Nishioka contract, in recent years.

For a team working on a 'budget', bad use of resources.

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I'll throw this out, too - they paid a LOT more for Carroll than I thought he would draw as a free agent, especially for a 2-year contract. If that 38-year-old breaks down, or just can't handle things defensively or withstand the everyday grind, it might be that the Punto contract looks like the best of the three contracts.

It is weird - this organization would obviously value an elite shortstop as much or more than most other MLB teams. It seems to be weaved into their DNA. But they have had absolutely no luck (or skill) in getting one that sticks. Bartlett has proved to be no great shakes, but given the replacements, one can argue trading him hurt the team more than trading Garza.

JJ Hardy would have been a good keeper if they'd just left him alone.

Also helps his stats for the #s he puts up in Baltimore's hitter-friendly park, but still the offense would be there.
Somehow, his footspeed didn't impress some people.

Now they get Carroll, who is probably about Hardy's speed or slightly faster. Yay.

De Los Santos seems to be a lost cause. Beresford is miles away. Levi M needs to have a big year and move up quickly.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Ed

Another C is also a complete waste of roster space. Doumit cannot be THAT bad.

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Completely agree, but Mr Gardenhire does not see it that way.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Ed

This is why I wonder what the heck the Twins saw in Yoshi when they scouted him in the first place. Did they only watch him on good days batting RH?

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I've honestly wondered whether there was any level of pre-signing scouting that went on before the Nishioka signing. It's somewhat defensible for there not to be - the Twins haven't had much of a presence in Japan, and he was a reasonably well-known player coming off a very good year in a competitive league. I'm not sure when he announced that he was coming over, but if it was reasonably late in the NPB season (or after it), it's certainly plausible that they could've said, "Hey, that guy just won their batting title and we need a shortstop - let's see if $3M is enough to get him," without sending someone over there to take a deep look.

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Originally Posted by Westgaard66

i say trade him regardless...the Twins don't need him.

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That'd be pretty much impossible at this point without eating his salary - no one's going to take on $6M in salary obligation for a guy who might amount to a AAA utility man. If you're going to pay the guy regardless, there's no downside to giving him another shot, whether in Minneapolis or Rochester.

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Originally Posted by John Bonnes

I'll throw this out, too - they paid a LOT more for Carroll than I thought he would draw as a free agent, especially for a 2-year contract. If that 38-year-old breaks down, or just can't handle things defensively or withstand the everyday grind, it might be that the Punto contract looks like the best of the three contracts.

It is weird - this organization would obviously value an elite shortstop as much or more than most other MLB teams. It seems to be weaved into their DNA. But they have had absolutely no luck (or skill) in getting one that sticks. Bartlett has proved to be no great shakes, but given the replacements, one can argue trading him hurt the team more than trading Garza.

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I don't understand the Carroll signing at all. I know Aaron Gleeman and a lot of bloggers have been moderately high on it as a short-term fix, but the guy has never been an everyday SS. I understand he didn't even make it to the majors until he was 28, but to ask him to just "discover" the ability to play 120+ games as a shortstop in one year at age 38 seems a little ridiculous.

Also, yeah, it's great that he's a selective hitter and has the potential for a high OBP, blah blah blah. You know when that isn't great? When you have CF, LF, 2B, AND SS all occupied by guys with basically no potential to drive in runs. Yes, you can do the Piranha thing where a bunch of "table-setters" in a row keep singling in runs, but that really is not a reliable method of generating offense. And when you combine the fact that we're not even trying to have a slugger at those 4 positions (and maybe Catcher too, depending on how Mauer rebounds)...uh oh. It would be one thing if we had guaranteed power at 1B and 3B, but there's not sure thing there either. People slam the Willingham signing and he's about the only spot in the lineup I feel somewhat confident in for 2012!

I think they find a way to bring him north. They have a tough time admitting mistakes (scouting wise, free agent spending wise) and usually give guys they spend a decent amount of money on every chance to crash and burn. Not that he hasn't already in most mind, but I just don't think the Twins consider a partial season as enough time.

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Originally Posted by StormJH1

Also, yeah, it's great that he's a selective hitter and has the potential for a high OBP, blah blah blah. You know when that isn't great? When you have CF, LF, 2B, AND SS all occupied by guys with basically no potential to drive in runs. Yes, you can do the Piranha thing where a bunch of "table-setters" in a row keep singling in runs, but that really is not a reliable method of generating offense.

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I trust that you have some specific free agent slugging shortstop(s) in mind? If not, I don't see the problem in signing a guy that does something well (getting on base, which also happens to be the most important skill in baseball) rather than waiting for someone who may or may not exist.

I am ok with the carroll signing cause he does get on base, but i really hope one of these young guys in the minors can excel and move up.....It would be nice to know a problematic position could be filled for a while instead of the revolving door it is now.

There's just too much toxicity in regards to Nishioka right now. Even if they did keep him, I can't picture him thriving in an environment where he's so clearly a lame duck player.

I don't really have any fancy reasons for feeling this way, but I can't even imagine Nishi on the Target Field bench in 2012.

I would like to see the final bench spot go to Parmelee instead of Nishi. Parmelee could give you a nice pinch hitting option off the bench, especially with Casilla, Carroll, and Revere in the lineup on most days you are going to need some power on the bench.

I think Nishioka will be on the opening day roster if he has a decent spring training. One of the reasons I think that is I believe the Twins want Dozier to play at Rochester. If Nishioka is in AAA to get playing time, that would mean Dozier would repeat at AA because he needs regular playing time as well. I don't think Nishioka is worth the risk of holding back development of Dozier. Another reason I think he makes the roster is he can learn maybe as much from watching the solid pro, Carroll, and how he goes about his business.

It will be interesting to see how much playing time he will be given in the spring games and if he will play both second base and shortstop. My guess is he will play shortstop in all the B games.

I am flat out "hoping" for Nishi to come out on fire and justify his salary and a spot on the 25. Because I have nothing else to hang on to. Bonnes is 100% correct when he says that he looked overmatched even before the injury. I am clinging to hope that it was nervousness and not feeling comfortable. I really hope that was the case.

I think that the Twins, after watching Plouffe's horrible defense in the infield would rather stick him in the outfield. Also, I think that there are several options for the Twins, as they currently have their shortstop Carroll under contract for two years, which will likely last them until Dozier is ready for the bigs.

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Originally Posted by J-Dog Dungan

I think that the Twins, after watching Plouffe's horrible defense in the infield would rather stick him in the outfield.

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I believe Ryan (or someone in the front office) has been quoted as saying that the team no longer views Plouffe as an infielder.

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Originally Posted by BeefMaster

I believe Ryan (or someone in the front office) has been quoted as saying that the team no longer views Plouffe as an infielder.

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Nor should they....i thought they should of gave Plouffe the chance to be the RF before they signed Willy. Now I think he should platoon with Revere in LF with Doumit being the primary DH on days Joe is catching. If anything the Twins have options in the OF and DH...Ben can play CF obviously and Span RF at times. Doumit can play OF and Plouffe can DH some etc... Bottom line is if healthy I think the Twins will hit and their defense, especially the infield should be better. The ? is the starting pitching and the middle relief.

As with Mauer and Capps, I think many are way too quick to write off Nishioka before seeing him play for an extended period. Virtually every former NPB position player has gone through a significant transition period, and with the injury issues last year, Nishi still hasn't seen extended play. With that said, I think a half-season at Rochester to show what he can do makes a lot more sense than giving him a half-season at Target Field to prove he can't.

Also, let's be careful about assuming Dozier is the middle-infield savior of this team: scouting reports on him give him only passable grades at 2B, and indicate he doesn't have the range to play SS in the major leagues. Just because he's the closest middle infielder in the Twins organization doesn't mean he's actually MLB-ready, or that he ever will be.

With all that said, Carroll has proven himself to be a capable middle infielder, and paired with Casilla/Hughes at 2B could represent a solid upgrade from the mess we saw last year, for at least a half-season. In the meantime, let's let Nishi and Dozier show what they can - and can't - do at Rochester or New Britain, and supplement the roster with Florimon (for defense) or with Burroughs (as a back-up 3B and potential DH/PH).

The other thing that has to be mentioned regarding Nishioka is that he really is not a short stop (he is ok at 2B) and that his defensive shortcomings at SS were also obvious in Japan. He lacks the arm strength to play short and he led the Pacific League in Japan in 2009 in errors for SS. So that was a known quantity, thus playing him at 2B last season. (In Japan he was an above average second baseman.) What was the surprise was his hitting (or lack of). So the Twins knew they were getting a below average SS when they got him.

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Originally Posted by Westgaard66

i say trade him regardless...the Twins don't need him.

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Who's going to take him?

Can't make the team. Can't start can't be a backup