Methinks that you got it wrong. It really is worth more to the taxpayer than the person who is going to the Lee County Sports Complex (game or not). Because the the fan will go where the Twins are spending their Spring Training. The Fort Myers taxpayer's job depends on the business that he or she is working for (and I am not talking about the Twins or the Miracle) is making enough money from those fans to pay them.Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhouse
Another point. There is no evidence that such improvements are needed. The Spring Trainign games are all played to a stadium played to capacity and ticket prices are relatively high. If you are a business that needs to improve, usually this is signaled by lowered demand or lower prices. Neither of these signals are evident. What this is is simply "park envy" that is so prevalent in professional sports. One team gets some bell and whistle, so every team thinks that they have to have the local taxpayers pay for this new bell and whistle.
If you have been to Hammond Field for a ST game or a Miracle game and did not enjoy the experience, then too bad for you. The stadium is more than adequate for its purpose.
Lastly, I do not completley dismiss using taxpayer money to support stadiums. Particularly in Florida which does not have state income taxes because we have tourists that pay a substantial part of our state bills. But, such support should be limited. I think giving the Twins the naming rights and incremental improvements of $10 million, maybe even $20 should be considered, particularly since the state funds 50% of the investment from tourist development money. But, that is not what the team wants because they think they can get it all.
No, the JOBS will go where the Spring Training games are. If you really want to be a ticket taker at a stadium, then you can pack up your belonging and move to the city were the Twins or another team relocate. I am sure the Twins would even give you priority and maintain your seniority!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by thrylos98Methinks that you got it wrong. It really is worth more to the taxpayer than the person who is going to the Lee County Sports Complex (game or not). Because the the fan will go where the Twins are spending their Spring Training. The Fort Myers taxpayer's job depends on the business that he or she is working for (and I am not talking about the Twins or the Miracle) is making enough money from those fans to pay them.Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhouse
NEXT, and this is a concept big dollar stadium advocates CANNOT GET THROUGH THEIR HEADS, VERY FEW JOBS DEPEND ON A FEW HOURS OF THE TWENTY DAYS THERE ARE SPRING TRAINING GAMES IN THE STADIUM. Sure, there are a handful of people who work at these jobs and that income may be very important for them and their families. But, this represents a 8% FTE assuming that every spring training related job works a full 8 hours on a game day(again, another doubful assumption). But on a macro-level these supposed jobs just do not justify the investment the Twins are seeking. For the lost income from these jobs, the county would probably be better off just paying them directly for their lost income rather than dumping huge money into stadium improvements.
I think this about says it all. We are agreed that if the Twins can get a better deal elsewhere they should take it. I'm okay with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhouse
It does and I agree totally. I just find it ironic that someone who advocates that Lee County violate the legally binding contractual terms of a valid lease would have the gall to refer to the Twins' "empty promises."Quote:
Originally Posted by sbknudsonI think this about says it all. We are agreed that if the Twins can get a better deal elsewhere they should take it. I'm okay with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhouse
Can't we all agree on a couple of things here.
1.) mlhouse says he is a taxpaying resident of Lee County and it is his money that will be spent. He has more at stake then we do in this arguement. So I bow to that and don't care if he is right or wrong on the economics. His county, his money, his vote.
2.) My friends and I will drop the 3,000 or so on a spring training trip in Fort Meyers or Orlando or AZ. I like the beach option, but you know AZ has some great bars, wonderful food and good golf I am sure. I think we can find a way to spend our money if Fort Meyers doesn't want it. No biggie to me. Three hours of baseball in the day and the rest eating and well...you know. We probably spend 400 at the games and then the rest exploring the town looking for another way to expand my waistline, kill a few brain cells, (Which I may have done too much of in 50 years.) and stay in the warmth and sun. I know Vegas wouldn't work for Spring training, but that would be awesome!
3.) The use of Caps and Bolding them should be outlawed. Really. I get your passion but it comes off as screaming and makes me less likely to take it seriously.
I go to Beloit games and went to games in Quad Cities before that and if they end up in Cedar Rapids I will go there. I am a nomad and vagabond of the minor leagues following my Twins where ever they end up. (Just no SAL please.) So Fort Meyers is just a spot on the map to me and mlhouse has a lot more invested then do I down there.
I will say this, Cities all around the country vie for large conventions and trade shows to fill up their hotels and resturants for just a week. I have worked with our local Chamber on all sorts of crazy schemes and ideas to lure the almighty tourist buck. Unless you have a built in Tourist attraction, like say Gettysburg Pa, it is damn hard to get noticed. I have been to Fort Meyers and to other Gulf Coast communities. Fort Meyers is good, but is it that much better then say Pensacola or Tampa St. Pete? Not really. So a whole month of revenue could be quite a hole for some folks to replace.