Thread: Where is Revere Most Valuable?

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

What reason is there to assume Revere can't hit .300 or above in the majors? He hit .270 last year as a 23-year-old rookie. You see absolutely no upside for him?

I presume you watch Twins games either at the ballpark or on TV. I simply don't see the potential. I see the upside being Juan Pierre Lite.

What is the track record for 5' 9" 170 lbs. 23 year old rookies that hit .270? With most of their hits on the ground?

Originally Posted by powrwrap

23 year old rookies that hit .270? With most of their hits on the ground?

What does his being 23 have anything to do with it?

I'm a big Revere fan, but assuming Span is back to his prime playing condition (which in my mind is still a HUGE "if"), I'm warming to the idea of Revere platooning with Plouffe in LF, at least to start. Then Plouffe also gets a little more playing time than if he was just on the bench, and it's not so scary to have span take a day off and have a Plouffe-Revere-Willingham OF. On the days Plouffe starts, Rever becomes a dangerous weapon on the bench. Definitely would make a team think twice about intentionally walking somebody late in a game when they could be subbed out for Revere.

If Span stays healthy then it's a platoon with Plouffe in LF. Revere right now is a 4th OF/PH/PR.

Originally Posted by powrwrap

I presume you watch Twins games either at the ballpark or on TV. I simply don't see the potential. I see the upside being Juan Pierre Lite.

What is the track record for 5' 9" 170 lbs. 23 year old rookies that hit .270? With most of their hits on the ground?

Yes, I watch the games. I don't think you can make absolute assessments of a rookie no matter how much you watch them play. When Torii Hunter was struggling through his first season, looking raw in the outfield and over-matched at the plate, I'm sure many fans who watched him were making the same sort of rash judgments. Young players can improve, learn and make adjustments.

Just because Revere put the ball in the dirt 70 percent of the time last year doesn't mean he always will, and even if he continues to tend toward grounders it doesn't mean he can't be successful (look at Ichiro for an extreme example). He hit .300 or better at every level in the minors, without exception.

I think Revere is capable of hitting .300 but it will be pretty empty as I don't think he's going to draw many walks. He'll be severely lacking in the power department, I would guess as well. He'll makeup for some of that with his base stealing to be sure but overall I don't think he'll be much of a difference maker offensively. Could be a solid guy to bat near the bottom of your lineup but I don't expect too much more.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Yes, I watch the games. I don't think you can make absolute assessments of a rookie no matter how much you watch them play. Young players can improve, learn and make adjustments.

Just because Revere put the ball in the dirt 70 percent of the time last year doesn't mean he always will, and even if he continues to tend toward grounders it doesn't mean he can't be successful (look at Ichiro for an extreme example). He hit .300 or better at every level in the minors, without exception.

I hope you are right. I just don't have any confidence in Revere being anything more than the second coming of Carlos Gomez, but with less power.

which makes Juan Pierre a great comp for Revere. Early in Pierre's career, he would hit over .300 and get on base at a very good clip and then steal a ton of bases. Similar defensively. If Ben Revere turns into a young Juan Pierre, that could be very valuable. It will largely be dependent upon his ability to hit over .300.

What Juan Pierre did in his early career was all star level. Check his stats, quite remarkable. If Revere can hit .300 and get on base at .350-.370 and steal 45-60 bases than we all should be jumping for joy. I think it's not totally out of the question.

Originally Posted by Seth Stohs

which makes Juan Pierre a great comp for Revere.

Here is likely Ben Revere’s comp.

Player X: First round draft choice (21st pick)
Revere: First round draft choice (28th pick)

Player X Age: 21, League: A+, Batting: .303/.361/.343
Revere: Age: 21, League: A+, Batting: .311/.372/.369

Player X Age: 22, League: AA-AAA, Batting: .308/.381/.363
Revere Age: 22, League: AA, Batting: .305/.371/.363

Player X Age: 23, League; AAA, Batting: .321/.380/.349
Revere Age: 23, League: AAA, Batting: .303/.338/.364

Player X, First full year in Majors, Age 24, 396 ABs, Batting: .280/.311/.326, 31 of 37 in SB att.
Revere, First full year in Majors, Age 23, 450 ABs, Batting .267/.310/.309, 34 of 43 in SB att.

Can you guess the identity of “Player X”?

Originally Posted by powrwrap

I hope you are right. I just don't have any confidence in Revere being anything more than the second coming of Carlos Gomez, but with less power.

Carlos Gomez strikes out in nearly a quarter of his plate appearances. The two are not comparable. Revere is a contact hitter.

Originally Posted by powrwrap

Here is likely Ben Revere’s comp.

Player X: First round draft choice (21st pick)
Revere: First round draft choice (28th pick)

Player X Age: 21, League: A+, Batting: .303/.361/.343
Revere: Age: 21, League: A+, Batting: .311/.372/.369

Player X Age: 22, League: AA-AAA, Batting: .308/.381/.363
Revere Age: 22, League: AA, Batting: .305/.371/.363

Player X Age: 23, League; AAA, Batting: .321/.380/.349
Revere Age: 23, League: AAA, Batting: .303/.338/.364

Player X, First full year in Majors, Age 24, 396 ABs, Batting: .280/.311/.326, 31 of 37 in SB att.
Revere, First full year in Majors, Age 23, 450 ABs, Batting .267/.310/.309, 34 of 43 in SB att.

Can you guess the identity of “Player X”?

Here's a quote from you, from earlier in this thread:

"I would suggest that those willing to dismiss Revere are using their eyes and knowledge while those holding out hoping that he will develop are relying on statistics OF OTHER PLAYERS. You may put me in the eyeball camp."

Pretty funny.

Revere best serves the Twins by assuming a position on the trading block. Span has very similar abilities with the added ability to draw a walk. You simply can't have an outfield with two spray-hitting speedsters who can't throw. I'd rather see Willingham in left, Span in center, Plouffe (or other contending youngster with a bit of pop in his bat) in right and a new addition to the bullpen via trade.

Anybody watch last night’s spring training game against the Red Sox. Trevor Plouffe looked terrible in the outfield defensively. He turned around twice on an easy fly ball hit by David Ortiz that turned into a double. He can’t read or track fly balls off the bat. To say Revere is a 4^th outfielder is a stretch so early in his career. I would rather say Plouffe is nothing more than a DH at best for the Twins. Revere is still most valuable in center field but he is much better defensively in left field than Plouffe and it's not even close. Plouffe might be worse than Delmon Young in left field with terrible jumps and bad judgment. Let's be honest Plouffe is another first round bust for the Twins.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Carlos Gomez strikes out in nearly a quarter of his plate appearances. The two are not comparable. Revere is a contact hitter.

You just compared Revere to Ichiro, I think that opens the door for any comps...

Originally Posted by alarp33

You just compared Revere to Ichiro, I think that opens the door for any comps...

I didn't really compare them directly, I said they fit under the same profile. Both are contact hitters who won't walk a ton and derive their value from hitting for average and stealing bases. I pointed out that Ichiro is an extreme example, as he's basically the best-case scenario for that prototype. The takeaway should be that it's a lot easier to post a high batting average when you're striking out less than 10 percent of the time. Gomez hasn't even hit .260 in the bigs and probably won't because he whiffs so much.

post deleted

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Here's a quote from you, from earlier in this thread:

"I would suggest that those willing to dismiss Revere are using their eyes and knowledge while those holding out hoping that he will develop are relying on statistics OF OTHER PLAYERS. You may put me in the eyeball camp."

Pretty funny.

I figured I'd play along. If people are going to use Torii Hunter and Kirby Puckett's early stats to project why they think Ben Revere should not be dismissed there are likely 25 other examples of closer comps to project why Ben Revere will not become Torii Hunter or Kirby Puckett.

The mystery player I selected is statistically amazingly close to Revere. Even down to the draft round selection spot and stolen bases stats.

Player X is Jason Tyner.

Look for concussion symptoms in the next couple days

Why does gardy insist on moving players from their most comfortable position? He did it with Delmon, now he is doing it with willingham.