Cafardo: Twins have inquired about Shields

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Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

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Originally Posted by jorgenswest

Many teams should be interested in Shields. The Rays will get a good return. The Royals are looking for pitching. If they get involved, they have the talent to offer a bat and a pitching prospect. If the Rays are also looking for a pitching prospect with the major league bat, the Twins may not be a good match for them.

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If that's what the Rays are asking, they can keep Shields. He's a good, not great, pitcher who is due to make ~$22m over the next two seasons. It doesn't make sense to pay significant prospects for a guy who isn't priced much below what he'd get on the free agent market.

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i believe shields is ranked as the 11th best starter in baseball for 2012, with santana getting 15 million you think 23 million over 2 years is high for this inning eatting stud?my thoughts are that curly needs to offer up span and a handful of non factor prospects including our minor leaque pitcher of the year hermsen,but he needs to make this trade now, so free agent pitchers can look and see that there will be the making of a rotation other then diamond...

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Originally Posted by Top Gun

Can Shields win 20? I doubt it.

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no but winning 15 is a 25%improvement over last years best pitcher....also would be worth about a 12 game swing in our standings

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Originally Posted by greengoblinrulz

How the Twins inquire
Last winter: Mark Buerhle....we'd sign ya for 2 yrs, but you want 3 or 4, at least we inquired
This year: Ervin Santana: you gonna trade him or release him....ok we inquired
Same with Shields
Wont think differently untill they prove me wrong (I WANT to be proven wrong). Shields would be a great asset untill Rick Anderson imposses his 100 pitch limit on him.

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You really want Santana and that contract for a year? The Royals gave up a mediocre, long time minor league pitcher and I bet they did not get the million of the buyout. 13 million for one year should buy you a better pitcher than Santana was last year. Now if the Angels loved some prospect you don't and you could get some cash.... The benefit of the inquiry is that it starts a conversation that leads you to know what mediocre prospects of yours they like. You could pluck another Brunansky off their minor league team.

Would have you wanted Buerle a 4 yrs/ 60 million?

Tampaa has aa few needs in the outfield. If you don't talk, you wont get anywhere

I wouldn't be interested. Denard Span for Shields just appears like too much and there is realistically no way the Twins can walk away winners with that foundation. Dealing with Tampa is like dealing with the devil too.

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Originally Posted by Brandon

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My problem, though, is this: I have serious, serious doubts that this team is going to contend for anything next season, and in my mind 2014 would be the first season that they legitimately could expect to be above .500. Maybe (hopefully) I'm dead wrong about this.

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This is small thinking. The Twins are 3 starting pitchers away from competing next year and a few minor adjustments. Baker has a good chance of comming back. Gibson should be ready next spring too. There are numerous starting pitchers available as free agents and we also have players we are able to trade. We should compete next year, there are too many opportunities to get the job done. If we are not competing next year then TR failed.

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I'm not quite sure how this is small thinking. If the Twins intend to compete next year against, for example, Detroit, they need -- according to you -- to get 3/5 of a new pitching rotation. That alone is significant. Then there is the left side of the infield. Then there is second base. Then there's hoping that Span, Morneau and Mauer stay as healthy as they did last season.

I'm not suggesting that this is not possible. I am suggesting that, for 2013, that is a tall order, and might not be feasible, considering that this team does have a budget (whether or not we, as fans, agree with that budget).

On most years you would be right that 3 pitchers would be a tall order. But there are too many possibilities for us not to be able to get it done this year. we have 2 exess players that are tradeable and an OF prospect or 2 as well. We have 25 or so million off the books and Gibson and Hendricks could be 2 of the pitchers next year. There are numerous FA in our price range. Yes this will be difficult but we have more tools to get it done than most others do too. and once we get 3 pitchers all we are looking at to push us forward is bench and bullpen depth. again not too tall of an order,

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

I wouldn't be interested. Denard Span for Shields just appears like too much and there is realistically no way the Twins can walk away winners with that foundation. Dealing with Tampa is like dealing with the devil too.

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Span is too much for Shields?

Get a grip, people.

I would pay Span and Parmalee. That is dealing from excess to get a front line starter. Rays may wnat to deal Hellickson instead and I wonder what it would take. Twins seem like a good fit to Tampa as they have a couple of cost controled players for a pitcher or two. Twins outfield prospects should be ready by 2014 - 2015. This helps buy time as I expect at least one of the prospects to be ready this year.

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Originally Posted by USAFChief

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

I wouldn't be interested. Denard Span for Shields just appears like too much and there is realistically no way the Twins can walk away winners with that foundation. Dealing with Tampa is like dealing with the devil too.

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Span is too much for Shields?

Get a grip, people.

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Well sure. Go ahead. Trade the best asset for what you could get on the free agent market. Marcum and Greinke would make about the same money as Shields is getting now and they are both better. I'd rather forfeit a draft pick than Span. Shields is a free agent after 2014 too. So if you're someone who would dislike an Elvis Andrus deal, this is for you.

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

Well sure. Go ahead. Trade the best asset for what you could get on the free agent market. Marcum and Greinke would make about the same money as Shields is getting now and they are both better. I'd rather forfeit a draft pick than Span. Shields is a free agent after 2014 too. So if you're someone who would dislike an Elvis Andrus deal, this is for you.

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Did I read that right? Marcum and Grienke are better than Shields?

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

Well sure. Go ahead. Trade the best asset for what you could get on the free agent market. Marcum and Greinke would make about the same money as Shields is getting now and they are both better. I'd rather forfeit a draft pick than Span. Shields is a free agent after 2014 too. So if you're someone who would dislike an Elvis Andrus deal, this is for you.

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Did I read that right? Marcum and Grienke are better than Shields?

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Well, I'd consider Greinke better than Shields (though not by much and you can make an argument for Shields).

Marcum, not so much.

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Originally Posted by USAFChief

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

I wouldn't be interested. Denard Span for Shields just appears like too much and there is realistically no way the Twins can walk away winners with that foundation. Dealing with Tampa is like dealing with the devil too.

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Span is too much for Shields?

Get a grip, people.

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Well sure. Go ahead. Trade the best asset for what you could get on the free agent market. Marcum and Greinke would make about the same money as Shields is getting now and they are both better. I'd rather forfeit a draft pick than Span. Shields is a free agent after 2014 too. So if you're someone who would dislike an Elvis Andrus deal, this is for you.

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Marcum will get less money and probably only 1 or 2 years. Greinke will get way more than Shields salary next year and for many more years...Your comment may be correct if you average Greinke and Marcum next year, than you are probably correct.

Oh ya, and I'd rather have the draft pick

A 500 pitcher is not worth Span, just as well sign a FA then. We need a ace, A #1 pitcher for the long-term, then build around what we got.

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

Well sure. Go ahead. Trade the best asset for what you could get on the free agent market. Marcum and Greinke would make about the same money as Shields is getting now and they are both better. I'd rather forfeit a draft pick than Span. Shields is a free agent after 2014 too. So if you're someone who would dislike an Elvis Andrus deal, this is for you.

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Did I read that right? Marcum and Grienke are better than Shields?

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Check out their career ERAs and ERA+. Marcum and Greinke are both better. You may want to look at some stats sometime. They are really nice.

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Originally Posted by Twins Twerp

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Originally Posted by USAFChief

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

I wouldn't be interested. Denard Span for Shields just appears like too much and there is realistically no way the Twins can walk away winners with that foundation. Dealing with Tampa is like dealing with the devil too.

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Span is too much for Shields?

Get a grip, people.

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Well sure. Go ahead. Trade the best asset for what you could get on the free agent market. Marcum and Greinke would make about the same money as Shields is getting now and they are both better. I'd rather forfeit a draft pick than Span. Shields is a free agent after 2014 too. So if you're someone who would dislike an Elvis Andrus deal, this is for you.

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Marcum will get less money and probably only 1 or 2 years. Greinke will get way more than Shields salary next year and for many more years...Your comment may be correct if you average Greinke and Marcum next year, than you are probably correct.

Oh ya, and I'd rather have the draft pick

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You'd take a crapshoot draft pick over one of the MLBs best outfielders? Span should be able to net some prospects with a better chance at the show than one 30-40 selection ever could. It's also extremely unlikely that the pick would ever perform at a higher level than he has.

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

Well sure. Go ahead. Trade the best asset for what you could get on the free agent market. Marcum and Greinke would make about the same money as Shields is getting now and they are both better. I'd rather forfeit a draft pick than Span. Shields is a free agent after 2014 too. So if you're someone who would dislike an Elvis Andrus deal, this is for you.

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Did I read that right? Marcum and Grienke are better than Shields?

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Check out their career ERAs and ERA+. Marcum and Greinke are both better. You may want to look at some stats sometime. They are really nice.

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I'd rather look at what they've done recently and the competition they face on a regular basis. I'll also look at WHIP and, even more importantly, the INNINGS they've pitched to get those ERAs you mentioned. Shields has gone over 200 innings 6 straight years. Marcum got over 200 once...and just barely. Marcum doesn't come close to Shields, Grienke is much closer, though not quite the workhorse. Thanks for the telling me to look at stats though...

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Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

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Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

Well sure. Go ahead. Trade the best asset for what you could get on the free agent market. Marcum and Greinke would make about the same money as Shields is getting now and they are both better. I'd rather forfeit a draft pick than Span. Shields is a free agent after 2014 too. So if you're someone who would dislike an Elvis Andrus deal, this is for you.

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Did I read that right? Marcum and Grienke are better than Shields?

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Well, I'd consider Greinke better than Shields (though not by much and you can make an argument for Shields).

Marcum, not so much.

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Marcum is not even close...Grienke is comparable, but he's gonna cost a lot more....and I'd personally still take Shields first.

Perhaps a step back to reflect. Ryan has stated that starting pitching was the #1 priority, that he would get three new starting pitchers, and that the Twins would compete. Failing that mission of three new SPs would leave him with neglible creditability for any future announcements. It makes no sense to add three warm bodies like those used in 2012 and proclaim "I signed three new pitchers". These guys have to have creditability as SPs. It is also known that the Twins have an excess of young OFs. The decision comes down to how important is it to acquire those three SPs and which of the young OFs should the Twins trade. Span has performed well, but let's face it the Twins haven't placed a high value on him. Span didn't get promoted in '07 when it was clear that Hunter was not staying. Span was evaluated as "not the next CF" in the player evaluation before the '08 season. The contract he was offered (and signed) was clear indication that the Twins did not consider him an "elite" CF. I like Span a lot, but I sense the Twins not-so-much. He has been "on the market" before so I conclude that Ryan intends to move him this off-season. If we conclude that he "is gone", then for who? As part of a package for decent SP, then his leaving is not in vain. I would not be surprised if the Twins make a deal with Tampa that there will be multiple players from both teams involved and that Span and Shields are simply the most established players in the deal.

I do not care who they talk to or who they are "in on". They have used that PR mumbo jumbo in the past. Talk is cheap. All I care about is who they get for what.

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

Marcum is not even close...Grienke is comparable, but he's gonna cost a lot more....and I'd personally still take Shields first.

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No, Marcum is not even close to Shields. Between Greinke and Shields, I'd probably prefer Shields because of money and duration of contract. You just can't rely on high-end pitching to perform for 5+ years.