11-14-2012, 05:31 PM #21
11-14-2012, 05:45 PM #22
Deck Mcquire... Chad Jenkins... Kyle Drabek... I have no idea if they are any good... But it looks like the Jays have some extra young arms for consideration... Give me a couple of those and I'll pray for their success.
11-14-2012, 06:10 PM #23
And I've repeatedly mentioned how I don't like Buerhle's contract. You know, like in the post directly beneath the one you quoted. The Marlins' needs didn't line up with the assets the Twins were willing to part with to get Buerhle. Toronto has a very different set of needs, particularly because it appears that they're going all-in for 2013.
11-14-2012, 06:52 PM #24
I like that idea as well but I don't think the Jays would do it, their pitching situation is bad.
It would be much more the Jays style to wait until Buehrle exhausts all remaining value and then trade him to the Angels.
11-14-2012, 06:54 PM #25
You'll also have a hard time convincing me the Twins couldn't have matched, or beat, what the Jays gave the Marlins, so I'm no buying the "need's didn't line up" rationale.
I would have loved for the Twins to end up with Reyes, Buehrle and Josh Johnson, basically for little besides money. But that's because it included Josh Johnson and Jose Reyes. Seems kind of...hypocritical to say you didn't like the Jays end of the Marlins deal because of Buehrle, then turn around and love the idea of giving up your first baseman, just to get Buehrle.
11-14-2012, 07:36 PM #26
But now we're talking about the Jays. A Jays team that *might not* want to keep all that salary around for 3+ years. Reyes is only slotted to make $10m in 2013 but that number jumps to $22m in the final year of Buerhle's contract and goes through 2018. The Jays also happen to need a first baseman. Maybe toss in Revere and you're starting to put together a package that isn't so bad and it's a package that doesn't cost the Twins a prospect.
Does it hamstring the Twins a bit in 2014 and 2015? Sure, and that's a serious downside of acquiring Buerhle. On the other hand, it also gives the Twins the ability to dish Span off for a lower level prospect instead of worrying about the Major League franchise so much. Is this likely to happen? Probably not, but it should be on the table.
11-14-2012, 07:53 PM #27
please for the love of God stop suggesting we try to get Mark Burhle.
11-14-2012, 08:13 PM #28
Absolutely not on Buerhle, if we are going to over pay for a pitcher I would rather go out and give Greinke 100 mil then that turd Buerhle, also Johnson is going no where.
11-14-2012, 08:17 PM #29
Kudos to the Jays for the Deal of the Decade, if not Century. That being said, I don't think they are done. There are several free agents out there yet plus, it seems, they are very creative on the trade front. While Morneau would be a great publicity move, I don't think they look at him before next years trade deadline.
11-14-2012, 08:22 PM #30
Toronto is able to get Johnson and Reyes for basically nothing but money, but have to take Buehrle's contract off the Marlins hands to get the deal done. And you want to bail Toronto out by taking Buehrle off thier hands? Why in heaven's name wouldn't the Twins have simply given a few decent, not great, prospects (and that's all Miami got) and gotten all three players then? You could still deal Morneau (and Revere) at that point, and you'd have Josh Johnson and Buehrle in the rotation and Reyes at short.
Buehrle was the yucky medicine you had to swallow in order to get the sugar (Johnson and Reyes). He's not someone you go out and acquire now, all by his lonesome.
11-14-2012, 08:25 PM #31
pretty good bet to put up 2 wins+ for bottom dollar over the next 4 seasons. That is a little more than a toss in, esp. when you're weighing him against a guy with 50 million of guaranteed money coming his way. The Jays would snap that up in a heartbeat.
11-14-2012, 09:05 PM #32
11-14-2012, 09:08 PM #33
Can we just stop talking about getting Buerhle? It wouldnt be a good trade whether it be for Revere or Morneau.
11-14-2012, 09:46 PM #34
The Buerhle contract is far from perfect but if you sweeten the deal a little and give up someone and get the Jays to pay some of the balance in 2014/2015, it might be a viable deal. Perfect? No, but when you need at least three starting pitchers for the upcoming season, it's not a bad place to start because dealing Morneau keeps you payroll-neutral in the short-term, allowing you to go get more arms via free agency.
And stop acting as if the Twins taking on $50m in salary this season was ever on the table. There's no way they would have acquired those three guys from the Marlins. It simply wasn't going to happen.
11-14-2012, 09:50 PM #35
Any pitcher the Twins acquire this offseason is going to have flaws. That's just how this works. If you're looking for the perfect pitcher to slot into the rotation and hold out waiting for that Prince Charming to materialize, you're going to end up watching a full season of Samuel Deduno throwing balls over Joe Mauer's head. Is Mark Buerhle the best option out there? Possibly, possibly not. But for the love of Christ, he should be the subject of at least one phone call this offseason.
11-14-2012, 09:52 PM #36
11-14-2012, 10:16 PM #37
The Twins, as they stand right now, have something on the order of $70M on the books for 2013. Adding $38M to that gets us to around $108M, and doesn't factor in any salary the Twins might have sent the Marlins way (Escobar, for example, will be paid by the Marlins in 2013.)
I don't think it's at all accurate to say there's no way the Twins could have put together something similar. In fact, just the opposite. If Toronto could do it, so could the Twins.
The Twins, if ownership wanted, could afford another $20M on top of that, and likely not lose money.
11-14-2012, 10:22 PM #38
Ownership has shown on multiple occasions that they would never consider such a move. That's all there is to it. You can disagree with them all you want but they hold the purse strings.
11-14-2012, 10:32 PM #39
I mentioned this in another thread. I don't think money is the issue at all here. Chief is right. The Twins could have taken on these salaries and salary dumped Morneau to the Jays or Mariners for a low level prospect and the salary range would be very reasonable.
The point I want to make is.... How does anyone know that the Twins were not on the phone trying to swing the deal and simply didn't have the players that interested the Marlins. Maybe the Marlins liked the Jays offer better... How does anyone know.
My god... We have people attacking our front office because two other teams made a trade. If you sit and think about that... You can see the craziness. Can't we. Everyone realizes that 29 other teams exist and are working as well. Talk about some sort of Twinscentric Bubble.
The Twins have no pitching to offer back. Maybe the Marlins said... Terry... That's a nice package but we simply don't want 8 outfielders... We are going to do this deal with the Jays instead.
With That said.. What a perfect package of players for the Twins... Reyes and Bonofocio could have stabilized MI and put our speed level to Top of the league by miles. Johnson and Buerhle would have provided much needed pitching. Not to mention the big jolt of energy for the franchise.
Last edited by Riverbrian; 11-14-2012 at 10:37 PM.
11-14-2012, 10:33 PM #40