Thread: Neal: Twins interested in bringing Liriano back

If anyone has a photo of a derailed train handy, now might be a good time to post it.

Originally Posted by Boom Boom

If anyone has a photo of a derailed train handy, now might be a good time to post it.

Welcome to the offseason. At least this isn't BYTO, where any derailed thread had at least a 75% chance of descending into photos of overweight women in Halloween costumes.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

You're grossly misrepresenting his point and you're doing it intentionally.

He's in full-on dankind mode when it comes to Nick and Duensing.

Personally... I don't want Liriano... I recognize his stuff and Do think its possible that he puts it together somewhere... Just not in Minnesota. The conclusion I have drawn from watching him is... Hole digger!!!

Too many holes personally dug by him for the team to climb out of. I'd rather have the guy who gives up a run or two to often than the guy who gives up 5 in an inning to often.

To contradict myself in the same post... I don't have a problem signing the guy for real low money because we need to acquire arms and lots of them... but we gotta have a clear exit strategy should he implode again. IE... He is cut or into the bullpen within a month of failure...

and to contradict myself again... We need to take a chance or two on guys like Liriano... I'd rather take that chance on Hochever because at least he will be a fresh face struggling.

Yeah, that jokin. What a class act.

Nick, the argument I'd make against signing Liriano is that it's almost completely predictable that he'll go into a long, long streak where he unravels. As emotionally distraught as some fans get, think of how much this shatters the bullpen for game after game. How it increases the prospects for injury. And the emotional toll on everyone else on the team should be considered. So, while Liriano has more upside, he has less reliability.

And, I'd be willing to bet that Pedro Hernandez and Samuel Deduno will both outperform him, especially in terms of quality starts and innings pitched per start.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Originally Posted by Boom Boom

If anyone has a photo of a derailed train handy, now might be a good time to post it.

Welcome to the offseason. At least this isn't BYTO, where any derailed thread had at least a 75% chance of descending into photos of overweight women in Halloween costumes.

You rang?l.jpg

I set you up for that, Dave. I'm only disappointed that it took you so long to respond.

Originally Posted by Boom Boom

If anyone has a photo of a derailed train handy, now might be a good time to post it.

Would this suffice?

Every pitcher in baseball has a good outing or two on occasion. It is the nature of the game. Drew Butera had a .732 ops in May last year.

Even with his sporadic "brilliance," his numbers prove he is a very bad pitcher.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

All I was doing was calling attention to the fact that Liriano has repeatedly shown an ability to dominate, which I believe you're unlikely to find among other pitchers available on cheap-ish one-year deals in this market. This is a guy who was a Game 1 postseason starter two years ago.

Again, if you want to play the cherry-picking game it works for virtually anyone. Kobs did a nice job pointing that out. You're basically denying the lionshare of the evidence to focus on a few things to tell people their reactions are too strong. I look at the body of work and think their reactions are pretty vindicated. That doesn't make you wrong, but it sure as hell means your line of criticism is.

The reason Liriano is worth a gamble isn't his brief moments of brilliance. It's the steaming pile of garbage we have for current options. That's the only reason the suggestion is palatable.

You admit that your frustration with him is tied up in emotion, and that's sort of my point. I believe that his struggles overshadow his strengths in the minds of many fans who have watched it all unfold. As Pseudo pointed out, he's the kind of upside play that the vast majority of people would be on board with if they hadn't experienced his downside up close over these last few years.

I wasn't criticizing the viewpoint that he shouldn't be brought back so much as the viewpoints that he's terrible and useless.

"Useless" is relative. He is useful, potentially, to us because we can afford to give him time to be terrible and hope to get lucky. But he has, in fact, been pretty terrible. (Just because we kept running him out doesn't make him a good pitcher. See: Nick Blackburn) We've been hearing the same mantra on him for 4 years - at some point you are what you are. Arguing with the bulk of results is really quite ridiculous. If someone charged in here trying to argue Nick Punto was an all-star because of his track record on partly cloudy Saturdays you'd rightfully run them out. What you're doing is not that much different - you're shunning the much larger results to concentrate on a few that you want to lord over people you don't agree with. The only reason your argument makes any sense has little to anything to do with Liriano and everything to do with our dearth of other options.

And, even then, it starts to look a whole lot less reasonable when you admit he's like to get 6+ million to get him. Baker's looking mighty nice these days at 5 isn't he?

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

I set you up for that, Dave. I'm only disappointed that it took you so long to respond.

I couldn't find it for a while, I used to keep pulling it from the BYTO wiki. Had to go back to a buddies myspace profile to find it haha, also I was shocked to find that myspace is still around!

It looks like consensus is that Liriano sucks.

Originally Posted by Kobs

I can just imagine being a Pohlad when Terry Ryan is updating me on his plan to improve the team, and this is his best idea. "How much am I paying you?"

Insert Argo quip here.

Originally Posted by Kobs

Every pitcher in baseball has a good outing or two on occasion. It is the nature of the game. Drew Butera had a .732 ops in May last year.

Sure. That isn't what we're talking about here.

Originally Posted by Kobs

Even with his sporadic "brilliance," his numbers prove he is a very bad pitcher.

His career numbers would in fact suggest that he is roughly an average pitcher, as would his fielding-independent metrics from the past two years.