Article: Twins trade Denard Span for Nationals' 2011 first round pick

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12-01-2012, 01:32 PM
Brock Beauchamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Throw ins?

I think it's possible that Rizzo and Ryan have been talking for a long time.
I think that Rizzo has wanted Span for awhile.
I think it's possible that Terry Ryan has been asking for Meyer in return since the trade deadline for Span and Rizzo has been saying that's too much.
I think it's possible that Ryan has been talking to a lot of clubs besides the Nats about Span but no team had risen to what Terry was asking.
I think it's possible that after the Braves signed Upton... Rizzo called Ryan and said,.. Alright Terry... Damn it.. I'll give you Meyer and a trade was agreed upon.

I do not believe that Upton signing with the Braves spurred Terry Ryan to call Rizzo in a panic and settle for this Meyer Kid before the meetings. That signing would be more likely to cause the Nats to come up and finish a deal.

Therefore I believe asking for a throw in... Is ridiculous. But I could be wrong on all of these things that I believe.

This is my thinking as well.
12-01-2012, 02:56 PM
ashburyjohn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon

The more I think about it, the Twins should have recieved a throw in to the deal. Maybe a c proscpect in a ball or a reliever, or lambardozzi or something as Span is a bargain at 21 million for 3 years compared to what Bourn will cost when he signs. Meyer is a great prospect and does a great job headlining the deal but he is still in A ball and we should be able to get something else to mitigate that risk so we still end up with some value should Meyer flop.

I expected the Span deal to be multi-player, where the other team added a second legitimate (but lower-tier) prospect and the Twins added an even lower-tier prospect to provide a fig leaf. And if the other team really would not add anything, then just swap two equally questionable prospects to pad out the deal. That kind of thing lowers the pressure somewhat. It's brave, IMO, of Ryan to accept one-for-one and avoid this bit of game playing. Meyer simply has to make good, and Ryan is not worried about his job. So, maybe "brave" isn't quite the word, but something close, the calm that comes with being near the end of one's career but still fully engaged.
12-01-2012, 03:37 PM
70charger

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashburyjohn

I expected the Span deal to be multi-player, where the other team added a second legitimate (but lower-tier) prospect and the Twins added an even lower-tier prospect to provide a fig leaf. And if the other team really would not add anything, then just swap two equally questionable prospects to pad out the deal. That kind of thing lowers the pressure somewhat. It's brave, IMO, of Ryan to accept one-for-one and avoid this bit of game playing. Meyer simply has to make good, and Ryan is not worried about his job. So, maybe "brave" isn't quite the word, but something close, the calm that comes with being near the end of one's career but still fully engaged.

At this point in the Twins' history, I'd rather have that kind of calm confidence in scouting than a skittish ultra-conservatism. You're not going to get to the playoffs without a serious shakeup, and yes, that entails risk. I'll take it.

I might regret being on record here, but I like this trade.
12-01-2012, 03:54 PM
Riverbrian

When I saw the trade announced... I remembered Meyer ranked high on Prospect lists but I didn't recall any details about him and his ranking. I just thought I remembered him and was pretty sure he was highly ranked. The name rung a big bell and I was excited.

I thought to myself. Interesting... I think they got someone.

I then jumped on the computer and immediately went to his stats... I saw he was over a strikeout an inning. ERA below 3.00

I thought to myself... Looks Good.

Than I noticed one year in A Ball.

I thought to myself... Shoot!!! only A ball... I was seriously hoping for closer to MLB ready... I felt a little concerned.

Than I noticed his age... 22 and one year in A ball.

I thought to myself... College Kid... That explains it. He could move up quick.

Than I read the scouting reports... Most reports are projecting top of the rotation. Upper 90's fastball and big time slider. He turned down 2 million to pitch in College and got 2 million again to sign after so he got his 2 million anyway.

I thought to myself... Multiple teams were willing to spend to sign this guy... Alright... Let's pray for health! I think Terry has done good! Can't wait to see him for myself.

I haven't seen him pitch yet... Based on what I've read and my trust in our Front Office. I think we got a good deal! I'm happy.
12-01-2012, 04:34 PM
diehardtwinsfan

Just another minor point to make, but these are the types of trades that TR has traditionally done very well on... I'm not quite sure about the angst here, a lot of us would have been thrilled to get Delgado or Cingrani who are closer to the show but have lower ceilings. Honestly, I'd have been fine for any of those. Ryan clearly wanted a high ceiling... hopefully that is what he takes next year in the draft too.
12-02-2012, 11:34 AM
ashburyjohn

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70charger

At this point in the Twins' history, I'd rather have that kind of calm confidence in scouting than a skittish ultra-conservatism. You're not going to get to the playoffs without a serious shakeup, and yes, that entails risk. I'll take it.

Just in case I was unclear, I'm a big Terry Ryan supporter and (as John Bonnes said succinctly on the very first page of these comments) I trust him on deals like this.
12-02-2012, 08:32 PM
Fire Dan Gladden

Media claims are about as close to reality as Thyrloss's last scoop.[/QUOTE]

We have a winner!
12-02-2012, 08:40 PM
Fire Dan Gladden

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Quote:

Originally Posted by kab21

I think it's a little early to write the Royal's great system off. It's taking longer than SOME expected but that is an organization that has a lot of talent. Unfortunately none of the young pitchers have worked out.

No, it's definitely too early to write them off entirely but the Royals should be a shining example of why burning down the franchise and rebuilding with prospects can be a mistake. The Royals did nothing wrong; they drafted smartly, traded smartly, and put together a stellar farm system... One of the best we've seen in baseball in two decades.

And what has that gotten them? So far, a whole lot of nothing. If a team can draft that well and build a minor league system that strong and still accomplish nothing at the Major League level, why should the Twins follow suit?

Attention all followers of the "Burn and Build" philosophy. Please read this post. Then read it again. And again. Commit it to memory. Remember it the next time you feel like typing something idiotic like "trade all veterans for prospects so we will be good in 2015"
12-02-2012, 08:54 PM
Fire Dan Gladden

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokin

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokin

After being teased in the media about going after guys like Shields and Cingrani, can you see why expectations had to be adjusted?

I'm not sure about the teasing, Meyer is a far better option than either of these two. Cingrani projects to be a 2/3 type pitcher and Sheilds has 1 year left on his deal. The Twins need depth at pitching just as much as they need it at the major league level. This was a smart move. They have a nice core of hitters coming up through the system which will complement a decent core of hitters that are currently here. But with no pitching, they will be mediocre.

I have no idea if Meyer will make it, but they've added some desparately needed talent to the pitching pool to complement the nice core of hitters they already have.

Getting a Meyer, with a very spotty college record, dominating kids younger than himself in A ball, short on fluid pitching mechanics on the come is far riskier than either Shields or Cingrani, but admittedly with a bigger potential payoff far down the road. I think it is incumbent on Parker Hageman to do an in-depth video/statistical comp on Randy Johnson's career at the same point to provide some vision to Twins fans on what may or may not be in store 5 years from now.

Obviously, a trade for Shields would have to have involved some kind of contract extension implicit in the trade, perhaps that's why the deal was never consumated. Cingrani has a lower ceiling than Meyer to be sure, but he could have been penciled into the desperately-seeking-arms-rotation sometime in 2013. Meyer is looking like a 2015 impact SP if everything plays out perfectly.

Randy Johnson? Really? Why not Loek Van Mil...

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