Orioles as Trading Partner?

"Connolly writes that "landing a first baseman or designated hitter with pop is a real possibility." His sense is that the Orioles will make a deal either at the Winter Meetings or within a few days of their conclusion.
Executive VP Dan Duquette told reporters on Sunday that a power bat is his biggest target, and that the addition would likely come via trade as opposed to free agency."

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/baltim...vj8bWcZ618S.99



The Orioles have a BA Top-10 starting pitcher in Dylan Bundy and have other pitching depth. Are they looking to move salary as well? The answer is "Yes" as both Roberts and Hardy have been speculated about as trade bait.

Do the Twins have what the Birds want in Morneau/Willingham/Prospect(s) to make this happen?

Morneau, Perkins, 7 million, Hermsenn, Rosario, something else for Machado and Gausman. People laughed when I suggested Span for Gausmann, but that is pretty much what they did in getting Meyer. This will not happen, but I would make the offer. And yes, I know Gausmann would need to be a ptbnl.

Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.

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Originally Posted by mike wants wins

Morneau, Perkins, 7 million, Hermsenn, Rosario, something else for Machado and Gausman. People laughed when I suggested Span for Gausmann, but that is pretty much what they did in getting Meyer. This will not happen, but I would make the offer. And yes, I know Gausmann would need to be a ptbnl.

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That isn't nearly enough for the Twins to get Machado and Gausman.
Morneau is nice player but still has plenty of questions, it's not hard to find power on the free agent market. Perkins is a good but not elite RP, Rosario is a nice prospect and Hermsenn has no value in a trade like this.

Machado is a stud who made an impact in the majors at 19 years old, he is about as close to "untouchable" as it gets. Also Gausman was just the #4 pick in the draft, no way is Baltimore going to trade him at this point.

If you were really serious about getting Machado you would need to package Sano along with Hicks and maybe a major leaguer to even get in the conversation.

Guys like Machado, Bundy and Gausman will not be traded this off-season or anytime soon. As far as a trade partner goes, Baltimore doesn't have a ton that interests me that we could obtain. I wouldn't mind bringing Hardy back, but I can't see that happening. I would like to take a run at Tillman (actually I wanted to go after him last off-season when he was struggling) but I don't think Tillman comes cheaply, other then that I don't see a whole lot of targets that make sense for the Twins.

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Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.

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I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

I would put Sano in a package for Machado.....but that part of the deal is unrealistic. I do think you could get Gausman though. The Orioles can smell it right now....

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

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Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.

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I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

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Would the ante be upped if the Orioles would consider Willingham and Parmelee in the same package- ie, two birds killed with one stone? What about their willingness to part with Roberts as part of the deal (who could later be flipped by the Twins?)

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Originally Posted by jokin

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

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Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.

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I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

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Would the ante be upped if the Orioles would consider Willingham and Parmelee in the same package- ie, two birds killed with one stone? What about their willingness to part with Roberts as part of the deal (who could later be flipped by the Twins?)

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Roberts has been absolutely dreadful the last 2 seasons and is owed a lot of money for 2013. Who are you saying they should trade for by packaging Willingham and Parmelee together?

Bundy? Machado? It ain't going to happen.

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

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Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.

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I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

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I hear ya and I don't necessarily disagree. Sure, you would like a guy who's under team control longer, but Hammel might not be impossible to lock up for a few more years, either. I do tend to discount his stats with Colorado a bit, though, so there's part of me that think you may be underestimating his abilities.

The thing is, with Morneau being owed $14 million, that presents a lot of opportunities. The Twins can agree to eat a significant part of that if they want something better than Hammel in return or the O's can take on most of the remaining money if Hammel is all they'd part with. Even that result would leave the Twins with a pretty big chunk of change that would be added to the $25 million or so that Ryan has to play with right now.

Like I said, it just seems like there could be a deal to be made between these two teams since they do have pieces that the other could use.

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Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.

---

I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

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I hear ya and I don't necessarily disagree. Sure, you would like a guy who's under team control longer, but Hammel might not be impossible to lock up for a few more years, either. I do tend to discount his stats with Colorado a bit, though, so there's part of me that think you may be underestimating his abilities.

The thing is, with Morneau being owed $14 million, that presents a lot of opportunities. The Twins can agree to eat a significant part of that if they want something better than Hammel in return or the O's can take on most of the remaining money if Hammel is all they'd part with. Even that result would leave the Twins with a pretty big chunk of change that would be added to the $25 million or so that Ryan has to play with right now.

Like I said, it just seems like there could be a deal to be made between these two teams since they do have pieces that the other could use.

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I'm just of the opinion that if you trade Morneau you need a youngster that can help the future back in return. IMO one year of Hammel isn't enough, even if he is willing to resign easier, I just think you can get any one of the 20 similar pitchers on the FA market that next year.

I think the best play is to keep Morneau to start the season, if he comes out healthy/effective you can always trade him at the deadline to a team that needs a bat (where his contract wouldn't be as big of an issue) and ideally get a solid prospect back. Or if the Twins are competitive you still have him around.

If someone offers you a good player in the meantime, take him. It's just I don't think Hammel is that "good player"

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

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Originally Posted by jokin

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

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Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

Funny... I JUST posed this question to Bonnes over on his "Rock and a Hard Place" thread.

Morneau and Hammel both become free agents after 2013, I believe. Parmelee and Tillman are younger guys that the Twins and O's would have around for several years. Sure there are injury issues with almost all of these guys, but certainly no more so than with someone like Brandon McCarthy.

It just seems to me like there should be a potential fit here.

---

I dunno man, Hammel doesn't do a whole lot for me. He was pretty mediorce prior to last season and couple that with the injury thing I don't think he is worth targeting at this point. If he had a couple more years of team control, or if the Twins were looking for "one more piece" then I could see it happening, I just fail to see the upside here, especially if you are trading a guy who could have a lot of value in a trade later in the season (Morneau)

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Would the ante be upped if the Orioles would consider Willingham and Parmelee in the same package- ie, two birds killed with one stone? What about their willingness to part with Roberts as part of the deal (who could later be flipped by the Twins?)

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Roberts has been absolutely dreadful the last 2 seasons and is owed a lot of money for 2013. Who are you saying they should trade for by packaging Willingham and Parmelee together?

Bundy? Machado? It ain't going to happen.

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You would probaly have to pick up some of the Bird's "weak sauce" (the thrify Orioles would likely want some dilution on the payroll inequity of the deal) to get what you really want. I know they won't trade Bundy, but they do have other decent pitchers, Gausman in effect, becomes superfluous, for a team, like MWW says, can "taste it" in 2013. And if they can taste it without Machado in the mix and can be induced by a throw-in prospect or two, I think you can make a win-win deal

Here's Orioles top 20 prospects http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/...pects-for-2013

Span, who was our best trade chip, got us a B+ prospect in Meyer. So there is no way we could get a guy like Gausman or Bundy or Machedo. There are untouchable. And after that, they don't have much. Morneau might get us a back end type starter. Not a lot to be excited about. Morneau's value will be much higher at the trade deadline, provided he stays healthy. If the Twins are 15 games back at the break but Morneau is putting up a solid/healthy season, he'd probably be the premier big bat on the market. Trade him then.

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Originally Posted by jokin

Gausman in effect, becomes superfluous, for a team, like MWW says, can "taste it" in 2013.

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Here is the thing about the 2012 Orioles...they weren't that good, they were extremely lucky. Was it a good baseball story to follow? Hell yes. But at the end of the day they are due for a huge regression in the W/L column. Not only were they the luckiest team in baseball last year, but I would venture to say one of the most lucky teams in the last 25 years or so. You need to look no further then then their pythagorean record and their results in one run and extra inning games.

The Orioles would be very foolish to get all "win now mode" and sell away the future of the franchise (they have a good young core in the farm system. Finally. They won't dismantle that now)

At this point, if I had to make predictions on the season the Orioles will probably be favored to finish in last place in the division, and that is no exaggeration. The Yankees are the Yankees, the Rays continue to be a solid ball club, the Blue Jays just brought in almost a whole new team! and the Red Sox won't be down for long.

The Orioles are already mostly former Twins, do we really need to be sending more over there?

I agree the Orioles were lucky, but it is not about what we think. It is about whether they think they are close, and I think they think that. And Meyer and Gausman are nearly identical prospects.

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

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Originally Posted by jokin

Gausman in effect, becomes superfluous, for a team, like MWW says, can "taste it" in 2013.

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Here is the thing about the 2012 Orioles...they weren't that good, they were extremely lucky. Was it a good baseball story to follow? Hell yes. But at the end of the day they are due for a huge regression in the W/L column. Not only were they the luckiest team in baseball last year, but I would venture to say one of the most lucky teams in the last 25 years or so. You need to look no further then then their pythagorean record and their results in one run and extra inning games.

The Orioles would be very foolish to get all "win now mode" and sell away the future of the franchise (they have a good young core in the farm system. Finally. They won't dismantle that now)

At this point, if I had to make predictions on the season the Orioles will probably be favored to finish in last place in the division, and that is no exaggeration. The Yankees are the Yankees, the Rays continue to be a solid ball club, the Blue Jays just brought in almost a whole new team! and the Red Sox won't be down for long.

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You're analyzing the Orioles like you're 2000 miles away from them (which you almost are, if you're from MN). Duqette doesn't strike me as a guy with the inferiority complex that you seem to think he should richly embrace. Yes, they were "lucky" last year, but their fans expectations for 2013 are a lot higher based on their 2012 luck, so there should be a penchant around the franchise to make the necessary moves to build on last season's W-L success, foolish or not, taking the slings and arrows for regressing from last season by taking no chances seems like a worse outcome for the Orioles FO.

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Originally Posted by mike wants wins

I agree the Orioles were lucky, but it is not about what we think. It is about whether they think they are close, and I think they think that. And Meyer and Gausman are nearly identical prospects.

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That + what I said.

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Originally Posted by 70charger

The Orioles are already mostly former Twins, do we really need to be sending more over there?

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Zing.

Hey, I am probably going to need the Orioles as my alternate team for yet another year, so why not?

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Originally Posted by mike wants wins

I agree the Orioles were lucky, but it is not about what we think. It is about whether they think they are close, and I think they think that. And Meyer and Gausman are nearly identical prospects.

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Well if the majority of baseball minds and fans can summize that they were lucky last year, I would hope their front office who is paid millions of dollars to be experts would realize this as ell.

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Originally Posted by jokin

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

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Originally Posted by jokin

Gausman in effect, becomes superfluous, for a team, like MWW says, can "taste it" in 2013.

---

Here is the thing about the 2012 Orioles...they weren't that good, they were extremely lucky. Was it a good baseball story to follow? Hell yes. But at the end of the day they are due for a huge regression in the W/L column. Not only were they the luckiest team in baseball last year, but I would venture to say one of the most lucky teams in the last 25 years or so. You need to look no further then then their pythagorean record and their results in one run and extra inning games.

The Orioles would be very foolish to get all "win now mode" and sell away the future of the franchise (they have a good young core in the farm system. Finally. They won't dismantle that now)

At this point, if I had to make predictions on the season the Orioles will probably be favored to finish in last place in the division, and that is no exaggeration. The Yankees are the Yankees, the Rays continue to be a solid ball club, the Blue Jays just brought in almost a whole new team! and the Red Sox won't be down for long.

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You're analyzing the Orioles like you're 2000 miles away from them (which you almost are, if you're from MN). Duqette doesn't strike me as a guy with the inferiority complex that you seem to think he should richly embrace. Yes, they were "lucky" last year, but their fans expectations for 2013 are a lot higher based on their 2012 luck, so there should be a penchant around the franchise to make the necessary moves to build on last season's W-L success, foolish or not, taking the slings and arrows for regressing from last season by taking no chances seems like a worse outcome for the Orioles FO.

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Actually I am about 200 miles away from Baltimore, and made a few trips down to Camden last year and have a quite a few friends who are O's fans. From talking to them, they all realize that last year was a fun ride, but largely due to luck. Orioles fans are excited moving forward, but they have their eye on 2014 and 2015, when guys like Bundy, Machado and Gausman will be making a huge impact (and the Yankees will be extremely old/The Rays will be getting in trouble etc)

The O's aren't going to mortage their future for some misguided "win now" model in the best division in baseball.