Thread: Article: If 2013 Isn't Realistic, Twins' Focus Turns To 2014

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?12...-turns-to-2014

Originally Posted by Cody Christie

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?12...-turns-to-2014

Nice article.

I am wondering if the higher cost of FA SP is going to mean the Twins are going to back off starting pitching from even what was intended when John Bonnes interviewed Ryan. Even pitchers like Edwin Jackson may be asking too much for them. However, it's not like the market will be cheaper next year.

If they aren't going to delve as deeply this year, they will pay a price in that people won't show at the games. There's also no reason to keep Willingham and Morneau, and they'd need to trade them now.

There's still some time left, but the quotes do seem ominous.

And the pitching will be even more expensive next off-season. And the season after that. And the huge drop in attendance when they punt? How will that help the payroll?

Originally Posted by Alex

If they aren't going to delve as deeply this year, they will pay a price in that people won't show at the games. There's also no reason to keep Willingham and Morneau, and they'd need to trade them now.

I'd agree more with Willingham since he is unlikely to increase his value during the season. If Morneau can show health and slight improvement from last year he would certainly gain value and might be a good July trade to a contending team in need of a 1B who at that point is only owed $7M.

I was thinking that we should consider tearing this thing down back in May. It don't sound like TR was going to go that direction as the season progressed... so I thought... Ok... Let's get some pitching and give it a shot in 2013.

Now I'm back to...

I don't know... someone tell me where I'm at...

Not long ago it sounded like Gardenhire had one year left to right the ship. Does the coaching staff still get cleaned out if Ryan once again fails to do his job by giving the on-field staff anything close to a competent rotation?

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

I was thinking that we should consider tearing this thing down back in May. It don't sound like TR was going to go that direction as the season progressed... so I thought... Ok... Let's get some pitching and give it a shot in 2013.

Now I'm back to...

I don't know... someone tell me where I'm at...

Im in your boat, like this is mind bottling.

If the Twins go into rebuilding mode, they need to advertise the team in a different way. They will save on payroll (might even get something from mlb) and revenue will slip. But that means - THEY HAVE THAT MUCH MORE TO SPEND IN 2014 - RIGHT?!?

Just because they won't be competitive in 2013 doesn't mean they should avoid FA starters. There is no reason they can't go out and sign a solid pitcher to a 3 yr contract even if that is overpaying. Rebuilding does not mean that every veteran has to be traded regardless of the trade package and FA's need to be avoided. There is virtually nobody that will be blocked by signing a solid veteran starter or two.

I think they should consider dealing Morneau or Willingham if the deal is right but they can wait until midseason. They aren't blocking anyone since Hicks and Arcia could use half a year in AAA.

Dove tailing with kab...

The Twins should be in the business of acquiring assets whether they are competitive or not in 2013. Any players in acquired during this free agency can be used to acquire additional assets for when we actually are competitive. To simply hold onto our money or spend it in another year misses myriad opportunities this offseason. The Twins should be thinking about what players that are available now will have inflated values during the trade deadline or the next offseason if they truly are punting 2013.

The myth of competing in 2013 can lead to real assets moving forward, but that myth probably needs to be maintained to acquire such players (at least through FA).

No way, I still expect the Twins to sign Greinke, Sanchez, and Dempster to long-term contracts and go for it all in 2013!

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

I was thinking that we should consider tearing this thing down back in May. It don't sound like TR was going to go that direction as the season progressed... so I thought... Ok... Let's get some pitching and give it a shot in 2013.

Now I'm back to...

I don't know... someone tell me where I'm at...

You're at . . . as clueless as I am. Ridding the team of Span for someone who will not pitch legitimately for the Twins before 2014 indicates a blowup and that is what should be done with one more trade of Morneau for another similar pitcher. I said go big or go big. That meant stick with this team with no trades and load up on FA pitchers or trade multiple players for the future.

half-assing it is a terrible idea. That is what they will do. Saunders and Liriano!!???

Last September, Ryan directly told the Season Ticket Holders that he would do what was necessary to build a contending Team in 2013. That was when the Twins were asking for our Money. Now that they have it, the story might be changing. Keep dumping on us and see what happens!

If the Twins are essentially giving up on 2013 they should be looking to trade Willingham and Morneau this season as well. If they trade Morneau and Willingham then realistically the Twins won't be competitive until 2015 or perhaps 2016. In 2015 Mauer will be 32 years old. The Twins will be paying $25M still for his services but we will have wasted his best years on non contending teams. So just as we are becoming competitive again Mauer will be winding down his career and still owed a boatload of money. I am not sure how I feel about that. Should we be looking to trade Mauer (assuming he gives the OK) just because we don't want a $25M anchor around our necks in the out years without the benefit of being competitive during his productive years?

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

Dove tailing with kab...

The Twins should be in the business of acquiring assets whether they are competitive or not in 2013. Any players in acquired during this free agency can be used to acquire additional assets for when we actually are competitive. To simply hold onto our money or spend it in another year misses myriad opportunities this offseason. The Twins should be thinking about what players that are available now will have inflated values during the trade deadline or the next offseason if they truly are punting 2013.

The myth of competing in 2013 can lead to real assets moving forward, but that myth probably needs to be maintained to acquire such players (at least through FA).

Very well stated. I completely agree. Marcum, McCarthy, Myers, Liriano and Villanueva are guys that can be had on 1-2 year deals and have the upside to be able to get a decent to good return in a future trade.

If you sign Marcum for three years, he is here in the years you are planning for. If you cannot sign 3 pitchers in one year, why not sign at least one now?

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

Dove tailing with kab...

The Twins should be in the business of acquiring assets whether they are competitive or not in 2013. Any players in acquired during this free agency can be used to acquire additional assets for when we actually are competitive. To simply hold onto our money or spend it in another year misses myriad opportunities this offseason. The Twins should be thinking about what players that are available now will have inflated values during the trade deadline or the next offseason if they truly are punting 2013.

The myth of competing in 2013 can lead to real assets moving forward, but that myth probably needs to be maintained to acquire such players (at least through FA).

I still have a glimmer of hope that the Twins can compete in 2013. This division is pretty bad.

With that said, Pseudo is 100% correct. You spend some money now and try to keep it within reason so you're not hamstrung in 2015 and beyond. If the Twins continue to be awful, then trade off some of those assets you bought in FA.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

Dove tailing with kab...

The Twins should be in the business of acquiring assets whether they are competitive or not in 2013. Any players in acquired during this free agency can be used to acquire additional assets for when we actually are competitive. To simply hold onto our money or spend it in another year misses myriad opportunities this offseason. The Twins should be thinking about what players that are available now will have inflated values during the trade deadline or the next offseason if they truly are punting 2013.

The myth of competing in 2013 can lead to real assets moving forward, but that myth probably needs to be maintained to acquire such players (at least through FA).

I still have a glimmer of hope that the Twins can compete in 2013. This division is pretty bad.

With that said, Pseudo is 100% correct. You spend some money now and try to keep it within reason so you're not hamstrung in 2015 and beyond. If the Twins continue to be awful, then trade off some of those assets you bought in FA.

I'm in agreement with this sentiment. What do you think Ryan and his team, in the privacy of their own conference room, are shooting for in 2013? I believe they view the worst case scenario as maybe 77 wins, and this means you have to pick up at least two starters that surpass the "Diamond Standard" (Edward Thoma's term). Now, if those two are Saunders and McCarthy as opposed to Sanibel and Jackson? Then I think they fall short of their best case scenario, which is competing for the division. I think it's very likely that they've given up hope of the best case because the trade and FA market are being uncooperative. But that doesn't preclude them from still signing, say, Marcum, Lannan, Liriano, etc. and expecting to win closer to half their games in 2013. We all know there are two things they will NOT do, which is to mortgage their future or to break the bank.

Bottom line is I still think it's reasonable to hope they add two pitchers in that 2nd tier of Marcum/McCarthy, and maybe one or two Liriano/Lannan/ Jurgens types to vie for the #5-6 starter role with the 9 other guys we have of that ilk.

Originally Posted by Highabove

Last September, Ryan directly told the Season Ticket Holders that he would do what was necessary to build a contending Team in 2013. That was when the Twins were asking for our Money. Now that they have it, the story might be changing. Keep dumping on us and see what happens!

Saunders and Liriano would really question TR and the Twins, in my mind it has to be a younger guy like McCarthy, otherwise let everyone get there money from another team, and unload Morneau/Willingham and let the Hendriks, DeVries, Gibson, Deduno, Meyer thing work. We can't just sign guys to fill a rotation and spend needless money, if you are going to rebuild, let the fans know that and take the lumps in 2013.

Originally Posted by rogrulz30

Originally Posted by Highabove

Last September, Ryan directly told the Season Ticket Holders that he would do what was necessary to build a contending Team in 2013. That was when the Twins were asking for our Money. Now that they have it, the story might be changing. Keep dumping on us and see what happens!

Saunders and Liriano would really question TR and the Twins, in my mind it has to be a younger guy like McCarthy, otherwise let everyone get there money from another team, and unload Morneau/Willingham and let the Hendriks, DeVries, Gibson, Deduno, Meyer thing work. We can't just sign guys to fill a rotation and spend needless money, if you are going to rebuild, let the fans know that and take the lumps in 2013.

If you have the money (and the Twins do), there's no reason you can't do both. Trade some of your valuable assets to restock the farm (as it appears Ryan is doing) and pick up some free agents that won't do damage to your longterm payroll. The path to winning is homegrown talent but in the meantime, that doesn't mean you can't field a team that isn't awful through the help of free agency.