Thread: I can't believe it but I agree with Sid Hartman

Do you watch the sports show on Channel 45 at 930 on Sunday nights? If you do you may skip the next few sentences. With regards the baseball hall of fame shutout this year mike max asked about changes to the voting system. Reuse and Vice President lavelle both said that the system should stay the same and next will be big to make it up for it. Then people will say they elect too many people to the hall of fame. Sid said it that he can't believe that couldn't elect someone and that is time for a change. And I agree. Maybe we could account for announcers and other Internet writers such as bloggers to reflect the way the sport is covered. It is the most Internet heavily followed sport and with mlbatbat has the highest selling sports application for iPhone and android and smart phone.. What's your take?

I didn't see the show. As I said in an earlier thread about this, I don't have a problem with the result per se. The fact that nobody got in does not necessarily mean the process is broken.

However, reading some of the absurd, flippant and illogical explanations from those who chose to publish their ballots proved to me that there's a lot of people voting on this thing who have absolutely zero business doing so. I'll have to go back and look at which one, but one of the ESPN guys said he could have voted for Morris because he has in the past, but "just wasn't feeling it this year." Are you kidding me? It's fine not to vote for Morris, I probably wouldn't either, but come on, take the process seriously. Then there was a guy who said he "needed more time" to decide on Biggio. That tells me he's being either lazy (they get these ballots in plenty of time to put some thought and analysis into each player and make a decision) or spineless (wants to see how others vote first so he can just follow the crowd.) Either way, if you can't or won't do the job, then your voting privileges should be taken from you can given to someone who can and will.

Agreed, It is one thing to follow the crowd, and another not to take voting seriously. That is an issue. Writers who are like that should not have ballots. If Feguson Jenkins can be in the Hall of Fame, so should Jack Morris. They both would throw strikes with a big lead and if they gave up a home run or two, so be it. Morris was a money pitcher in most critical games. Biggo I can understand a bit, as some of the writers did not want to give him first year status(higher honor). Morris also pitched in a band box for most of his career, but writers do not seem to understand ballpark effects.
It will be interesting to see how Maddux and Glavine are handled, since the argument can be made that their sucess had a lot to do with umpireing in the 90's where if you were established as a control pitcher and hit the catchers glove with it moving for the pitch, it was often called a strike, whether it was on the corner or 3 inches outside(almost unhittable).

I think we need to take a deep breath and ask whether the system is broken. I happen to think that the baseball hall of fame is far better than the hall of fame of any other major sport, mainly because it's so ridiculously hard to get into. Maybe we could reconsider who votes, but I don't think I'd change how they vote.

Yup. Sid's comments about Jack were spot on too.

Reusse, as usual, showed his venomous side when asked why he wouldn't vote for someone the first time they are on a ballot if he doesn't like them for x reason.

Mackey saying he wouldn't vote for Morris during the week, claiming he wasn't the dominent pitcher of the 80's was truly mind boggling.

You don't vote for someone because YOU don't like them. C'mon, man. You have stats, the way they played the game, the decade of play, the stadiums, the umps. But just because you didn't loke them? Jeez.

Originally Posted by BrentMpls

claiming he wasn't the dominent pitcher of the 80's was truly mind boggling.

Doc Gooden was dominant in the 80's, Roger Clemens was dominant, or Bret Saberhagen. Hell, Dave Stieb has a better claim to being "dominant" in the 80's.


Morris was really good, but it's nothing more than coincidence that he had a career where the 80's overlapped his prime years perfectly. The "pitcher of the 80's" stuff may make for a fun narrative, but it makes for a lousy justification for a hall vote.

About this Morris thing:
people should let it rest. He does not belong to the Hall of Fame.

Morris has a 39.3 career rWAR

look at the following non-HOFers

Dave Stieb: 53.5
David Wells: 49.4
Jimmy Key: 46.1
Doc Gooden: 45.1

and here is the kicker:

Frank Viola: 43.7
so if Twins' fans want to lobby after a former P to be in the Hall, it should be Frankie V (who had a Cy Young award and a WS MVP as well)
or even Brad Radke: 42.6 (but from another era)

WAR is not a universally accepted stat yet, so I wouldn't necessarily agree with the above arguement. What Morris has that those other pitchers don't is more Wins to go with the World Series MVP and game 7 10 inning Shut Out. If I remember correctly he pitched deep into games which is why he has so many wins. He is a fringy candidate as he has the highest era of anyone who would be elected. He also has a long history of being a good pitcher who accumulated a lot of wins and with some post season games that should not be forgotten. I think he belongs.

Wins are also not a uniformly accepted stat, for good reason.

I think Jack should be in. Viola, Doc, ect. probably should be in too, but they had there chance, it is Jacks turn now vote him in.