Thread: Marcum To Mets

I've got to hand it to the Twins front office, they're apparently the only team in the history of free agency that's been capable of keeping every single quality free agent offer a secret.

They're special, and every free agent hates Minnesota, it's the only reasonable conclusion.

Originally Posted by jokin

The problem with this analysis is the greater risk that Ryan has already taken on deals much less certain to work out.

I don't buy this premise. Depending on medicals Marcum could easily be more risky than the major league contracts Ryan signes. We don't know.

I do find it telling that the Brewers, who know Marcum well, have money to spend, and have a big need for starting pitching, passed on him.

Originally Posted by S.

Parise and Sutter to the Wild ring a bell?

Nitpick, it's Suter, but you're right.

Odd that they were both offered a fair amount of money as well, don't you think?

Oops. Typo aside, the Wild dispel that argument of his very quickly.

Even if his health is extremely suspect, which I believe it is, what Is there stopping the Twins, or any other GM, offering, a contract with multiple clauses, comparable to the Delmon deal.

$5m signing bonus
4 starts in April = first incentive kicks in
4 starts in May = 2nd incentive kicks in
etc.

or something along those lines.

Carl Pavano has a ruptured spleen from shoveling snow in his driveway in Vermont...if i was TR i would offer 3 million..there you go 1 more starter for this year

St. Louis was a bad example.

1) Does everyone truly believe that the only reason you haven't signed a Top flight free agent is because you haven't offered, at least, equal money as other teams have offered?
2) Does that mean that you agree, that you have to over pay to get people to come to MN?
3) If you agree that you have to over pay? Why is it that you have to over pay? We are talking 20+ years?
4) Is it your opinion that FO has never offered equal money to a Top FA over the last 20+ years?
5) Why is Morris the last to accept?

I love MN, but want to know what it is about MN that keeps FA away? Unless you believe MN has never matched an offer? And if they have - FAs still haven't come? Why is all I'm asking?

This is like the age old argument, what came first, the chicken or the egg...

Originally Posted by drjim

I don't buy this premise. Depending on medicals Marcum could easily be more risky than the major league contracts Ryan signes. We don't know.

I do find it telling that the Brewers, who know Marcum well, have money to spend, and have a big need for starting pitching, passed on him.

Couldn't you say the same about the Mets and Pelfrey? Why did Ryan sign him then?

Originally Posted by snepp

I've got to hand it to the Twins front office, they're apparently the only team in the history of free agency that's been capable of keeping every single quality free agent offer a secret.

They're special, and every free agent hates Minnesota, it's the only reasonable conclusion.

Or the various owners over the last 20+ just don't match offers. I'd like to think it's a combination of both personally.

Originally Posted by ThePuck

This is like the age old argument, what came first, the chicken or the egg...

It's the chicken. Actuality is logically prior to potency.

Originally Posted by johnnydakota

Now your telling us who to follow?
how to be fans?

If you want to take my statement out of context sure.

Originally Posted by lightfoot789

I love MN, but want to know what it is about MN that keeps FA away? Unless you believe MN has never matched an offer? And if they have - FAs still haven't come? Why is all I'm asking?

Probably for the same reason we have so much trouble attracting Fortune 1000 and Forbes 100 companies....

Originally Posted by lightfoot789

St. Louis was a bad example.

2) Does that mean that you agree, that you have to over pay to get people to come to MN?
3) If you agree that you have to over pay? Why is it that you have to over pay? We are talking 20+ years?

This is the crux of your problem. Your view of overpaying is being top dollar. And yes, in most instances, you have to be top dollar to get the free agent no matter which team is offering the contract. The agent's job is letting each team know (or conning them into believing) what is being offerd by the other clubs so that one of them will go just a little bit higher.

Terry Ryan's view of overpaying is when the pitcher signs a contract for anything more than what Ryan thinks he's worth. Which happens to be nearly every single pitcher who has ever worn a MLB uniform.

Originally Posted by jokin

The problem with this analysis is the greater risk that Ryan has already taken on deals much less certain to work out.

You can't pretend to know whether Marcum is any less of a health risk than Pelfry or Harden. You just don't know.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Walters, Deduno, De Vries, et al should not be blocking any legitimate prospects. They're AAA filler, nothing more. They're the type of guy you use in a pinch and discard the moment something better comes along.

Besides, the Twins don't have any depth at AA, either. This is a non-issue.

Not how the game works in mid market baseball and you know that. The Twins don't just jettison folks. I have often wondered why someone has stayed at a level too long and not gotten a shot at moving up. Lotsa times it's a philosophical issue and many others there simply isn't enough room at the next level.

Originally Posted by drjim

I don't buy this premise. Depending on medicals Marcum could easily be more risky than the major league contracts Ryan signes. We don't know.

I do find it telling that the Brewers, who know Marcum well, have money to spend, and have a big need for starting pitching, passed on him.

I think it's even more telling that the Mets passed on Pelfrey!

Marcum could be more risky, but he's not coming off of September TJ (Pelfrey) and his last year of pitching effectiveness wasn't 2009 (Harden, w/ catastrophic shoulder surgery overlooming any potential comeback) or being extremely sucky for an entire career (Correia).

Also, Marcum was never a power pitcher and still has produced vastly superior "power pitcher"-like results over the alternatives who throw faster. His potential "bounceback" from his current medical issues won't be nearly as dependent on restoring velocity, just throwing his dime-store cutter and restoring overall command. Nearly 75% of what Pelfrey throws is FBs and Split-Finger FBs.... in addition....His career peripherals pale in comparison to Marcum's, if his FB starts to touch below 90 this year, he will be basically useless for 2013.

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

You can't pretend to know whether Marcum is any less of a health risk than Pelfry or Harden. You just don't know.

Didn't say that I did know, but see my post above. It's your choice to "know" even less, at your own risk.

Originally Posted by lightfoot789

St. Louis was a bad example.

1) Does everyone truly believe that the only reason you haven't signed a Top flight free agent is because you haven't offered, at least, equal money as other teams have offered?
2) Does that mean that you agree, that you have to over pay to get people to come to MN?
3) If you agree that you have to over pay? Why is it that you have to over pay? We are talking 20+ years?
4) Is it your opinion that FO has never offered equal money to a Top FA over the last 20+ years?
5) Why is Morris the last to accept?

I love MN, but want to know what it is about MN that keeps FA away? Unless you believe MN has never matched an offer? And if they have - FAs still haven't come? Why is all I'm asking?

A few things. You dont have to bold and underline everything. I do agree that it is because we havent offered equal contracts as other bidders. Getting top flight talent through free agency requires you to overbid. It is in the opinion that in the past 20 years, we havent offered equal money to top flight talent. That is correct.

Aw what the hell, I will throw in italics. Morris probably signed with the Twins because he was at the end of his career and teams probably didnt think he had anything left in the tank. Sounds like a reoccuring theme doesnt it?

Originally Posted by panolo

Not how the game works in mid market baseball and you know that. The Twins don't just jettison folks. I have often wondered why someone has stayed at a level too long and not gotten a shot at moving up. Lotsa times it's a philosophical issue and many others there simply isn't enough room at the next level.

Devries, Walters and Deduno all did move up, with less than stellar results that are only bound to worsen. Lotsa times it's simply a talent issue.

Who exactly is sitting in AA or A ball that can't get a chance?