Thread: Sinker: Why The Twins Will Stink

Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack

I think Howard nails it when he talks about how building for the future is great, but refusing to build a birdge to the future is hard to accept or justify.

The Twins have money to spend. They are in the weakest division in baseball. We may be a ways off from being a legit threat to win it all, but I think another solid starter and a competent middle infielder or two could have given us a shot to hang in the division race for a while with an outside chance to win it if some things broke our way.

But as I look at the roster now, I see a 70-75 win team.

I'm with you all the way, but I think 75 is the absolute optimistic ceiling. The margin for success is now as thin as it has been in some time. While they likely won't have the complete physical breakdown of 2011, it only takes one key player going down and another having a subpar season and this could easily be another team threatening 100 losses. I think the 17 scheduled games with the Astros, Mets, Marlins and Brewers are the main thing going to sustain hope for 75 wins and prevent the Twins from 100 losses.

Originally Posted by birdwatcher

When were Stelmazek and White "blamed for anything, and by whom, thrylos?

They weren't, that's when. And isn't it ironic, coming from you, that you're bitter about those two, but have been calling for the Twins to rid themselves of the old (literally meant by you) guys like Rantz and Gardy? Who's been any better at the blame game than you?

So they fire the black guy and another guy whos entire job is to answer the phone and tell a pitcher to start warming up?
The pitching coach who has shown a lack of ability to cultivate any thing other then meatball city pitchers, is safe so that
the manager of back to back 95plus loss seasons will feel more comfortable?Personally after the 1st 95 loss season he should have felt very uncomfortable....

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

The thing I like about Jokin is this:

He gives me things to google cuz I have to trace down a bunch of his references... There is value in that!!! and Jokin I do appreciate it.

Initial inspiration came from Grand Forks way.

Originally Posted by ashburyjohn

The bell curve is shaped the way it is for a reason. Yes, someone will likely be a one-year wonder; the odds that it's specifically Deduno are not so "easily" seen.

Saying Deduno could easily be the one to break out is along the same lines as saying the Twins either will, or won't, win the World Series in 2013, therefore the odds must be 50-50 on either outcome.

It's safe to say that both Glunn and I were talking tongue in cheek after midnight. We all "know" that Deduno won't be pitching in the World Series, just sayin' that when optimism still rides high in preseason, that he was just confounding enough in2012 to be eminently qualified to pin down as a one-year lightining in a bottle kind of guy.

Originally Posted by johnnydakota

So they fire the black guy and another guy whos entire job is to answer the phone and tell a pitcher to start warming up?
The pitching coach who has shown a lack of ability to cultivate any thing other then meatball city pitchers, is safe so that
the manager of back to back 95plus loss seasons will feel more comfortable?Personally after the 1st 95 loss season he should have felt very uncomfortable....

Who's the Black guy? Do You mean White?

Originally Posted by jokin

Initial inspiration came from Grand Forks way.

Originally Posted by jokin

I'm with you all the way, but I think 75 is the absolute optimistic ceiling. The margin for success is now as thin as it has been in some time. While they likely won't have the complete physical breakdown of 2011, it only takes one key player going down and another having a subpar season and this could easily be another team threatening 100 losses. I think the 17 scheduled games with the Astros, Mets, Marlins and Brewers are the main thing going to sustain hope for 75 wins and prevent the Twins from 100 losses.

---Yeah, maybe 75 is optimistic, but I expect a bit of an uptick in wins. The way I see it, it's similar to last year's team, but with better starting pitching. Not great, but better.

It's hard to overstate how bad the starting pitching was last year. So many nights we were down by 4 or 5 runs before half the fans had settled into their seats. It's really hard to win games that way. So better starting pitching should be good for a few W's.

And I could be totally off on this, but I have a gut feeling that the Big Canadian is poised for a monster comeback year that will make the Twins regret not extending him when they may have been able to do so for a more reasonable price.

Oh, it could have been alot worse without Diamond.

Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack

---Yeah, maybe 75 is optimistic, but I expect a bit of an uptick in wins. The way I see it, it's similar to last year's team, but with better starting pitching. Not great, but better.

It's hard to overstate how bad the starting pitching was last year. So many nights we were down by 4 or 5 runs before half the fans had settled into their seats. It's really hard to win games that way. So better starting pitching should be good for a few W's.

And I could be totally off on this, but I have a gut feeling that the Big Canadian is poised for a monster comeback year that will make the Twins regret not extending him when they may have been able to do so for a more reasonable price.

That's the only way that I can see it... I'm not blind to all the concerns that many of us have. I seriously wouldn't be opposed to placing a big question mark somewhere in the team logo this year because of all the questions marks that we have at this moment in time.

My expectations are measured in my opinion. I'm not going to declare the Twins pitching staff on par with the rest of the league. I simply expect that it will be better through strength in numbers... Or at least Mediocre through Numbers.

As long as Gardy doesn't trot a struggling pitcher out there time and time again waiting for improvement from the struggler.

If the team is serious about turning to the next pitching option instead... If a goal of average pitching can be produced in 2013 by avoiding the really bad pitcher.

The games will be closer... The daily battles will be tighter and then we get a chance to find out what everybody else can do. If the team is fighting for wins instead of the air getting taken out of the balloon early in the game. We will begin to know who can help us and who can't going forward.

"To believe is to be strong... Doubt Cramps Energy... Belief is Power" Last year's pitching staff left the team doubting way too often last year.

This is how the Twins can shock us all... even me. I'm not betting on a winning record. I'm just hoping for progress and a feeling... even if it's a small tiny little feeling that we can win on any given night because without that feeling... It will be a long year because "Doubt Cramps Energy".

I simply choose to believe that just average pitching could have a big effect on the outcomes of our squad. Not looking for a WS Title this year... Just improvement and a reason for the players to compete because it's 4-4 in 8th inning instead of 6 to 1 in the 4th.

I'm just hoping Gardy can get his his horses through ST without losing anyone. It has been cruel to this team in recent years.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

That's the only way that I can see it... I'm not blind to all the concerns that many of us have. I seriously wouldn't be opposed to placing a big question mark somewhere in the team logo this year because of all the questions marks that we have at this moment in time.

My expectations are measured in my opinion. I'm not going to declare the Twins pitching staff on par with the rest of the league. I simply expect that it will be better through strength in numbers... Or at least Mediocre through Numbers.

As long as Gardy doesn't trot a struggling pitcher out there time and time again waiting for improvement from the struggler.

If the team is serious about turning to the next pitching option instead... If a goal of average pitching can be produced in 2013 by avoiding the really bad pitcher.

The games will be closer... The daily battles will be tighter and then we get a chance to find out what everybody else can do. If the team is fighting for wins instead of the air getting taken out of the balloon early in the game. We will begin to know who can help us and who can't going forward.

"To believe is to be strong... Doubt Cramps Energy... Belief is Power" Last year's pitching staff left the team doubting way too often last year.

This is how the Twins can shock us all... even me. I'm not betting on a winning record. I'm just hoping for progress and a feeling... even if it's a small tiny little feeling that we can win on any given night because without that feeling... It will be a long year because "Doubt Cramps Energy".

I simply choose to believe that just average pitching could have a big effect on the outcomes of our squad. Not looking for a WS Title this year... Just improvement and a reason for the players to compete because it's 4-4 in 8th inning instead of 6 to 1 in the 4th.

---Yeah when you're starting pitching is that bad, it makes everything more difficult. It burns out your bullpen. It keeps your defense on the field for long stretches. (God I remember some innings that just seemed interminable last year.) And the offense feels like they've got to put up 8 runs every night. So hopefully better starting pitching will ease things up on everyone. I'm still not terribly optimistic about this team, but like you said, it could at least mean more competitive games. I think we'll probably come out on the wrong side of a lot of those, but it's better than the game being over by the 5th inning.

I think fans tend to get overly accustomed to a certain vibe and lose their perspective.

In the 2010-2011 offseason the Twins were coming off three straight winning seasons. I remember disliking many of their moves and expressing a foreboding feeling about the coming year. I was constantly accused of being overly negative for no reason. And even my most pessimistic premonitions fell short of what actually took place.

The last two years have been as bad as can be. Assumptions are that experiments will go poorly and injuries will pile up. That's reflected in Howard's tone, which is understandable.

But the Twins have two former MVPs, under 32, as healthy as they've been in years, and a bunch of potentially solid pieces around them. It's just not that outlandish to think the pitching could be around average and this team could hang around .500, which would make it an interesting and (IMO) satisfying season. All they need is some good breaks and, while we haven't seen many of those the past couple years, they do happen. Look at the 10 years prior.

Well Nick, as someone who spends his winters following the Timberwolves, I'd sure as hell like to see some good breaks for the Twins in 2013. Because this T-Wolves season, so filled with early promise, has been one bad break after another. It's been maddening to watch.

I don't think you're wrong about being able to hang around .500. But I feel like another decent arm and a solid middle infielder would have increased our ceiling from '.500 team' to 'outside division threat', and it's frustrating that the team couldn't or wouldn't figure out a way to make that happen. Yes, the rotation is better and you've got a couple of studs in the lineup, but there's too many question marks entering the season for me to be too optimistic.

At least at this point. It's still to early and too damn cold. I'll be more in the hope-springs-enternal mode as the ice starts to melt and opening days is in sight.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

a bunch of potentially solid pieces around them

Who?