Thread: Hendriks

Originally Posted by Seth Stohs

Everyone knows that I'm incredibly high on Hendriks. Not that he can be a #1, but I think he can be equivalent to what Scott Baker was (which was a #3 with sometimes #2 abilities). He's got the same pitches. He has the control. I just think he's very smart pitching-wise, and he was thinking too much. getting that first Win out of the way will help. He definitely was in his head in the big leagues last year. What would be great is if he had another strong spring training and got off to a nice start, like 3-1 in April or something. Then he can relax and just pitch. I think he can be successful.

Granted, I've been wrong about several players, but I'll take my chances with Liam.

Liam , this years diamond....

Liam could be a star in Japan. Without an out pitch, it will be a hope in the MLB.

Originally Posted by glunn

It seemed to me that the Angels hitters were fouling off a lot of pitches until they got something to hit.

That is my recollection as well, from watching him in his game at Oakland, the one where Coco Crisp had a big game. And ya know... the box score at baseball-reference.com doesn't back me up on this particularly. The innings where the runs scored, there weren't a bunch of foul balls. And the at bat I do remember, of Pennington fouling off 7 consecutively, he ended up striking out. Reddick did draw a walk after fouling off 4; but all in all, my anecdotal evidence doesn't hold up. Not as a major explanation along the lines of not being able to put batters away, at least.

He's the sort of fellow who very easily could flip the switch and make the rotation much better.

Originally Posted by jokin

Age-wise, Lohse and Hendriks are on the same age progression and both would be considered outside of the main stream, culturally. Hendriks minor league numbers are comparatively better, and has a little better control, but not as fast as Lohse. This is one guy that will hold my interest on his progression in a huge year of opportunity for him. I think it's largely mental at this point and learning how to "pitch".

Not so much learning how to pitch as learning to stick with his game plan. What I saw last year was Hendriks letting the opposition put pressure on him, rather than Hendriks putting pressure on them. Execute your game plan, then let the chips fall where they may. Hendriks has to learn to separate his job from his ego. Just throw the pitch your catcher calls, then get ready for the next one.

One of two things always happens in sports: Either you are feeling pressure, or you are applying pressure. The nice thing is, when you're applying pressure, you don't feel it. Winners are always applying pressure.

I see him in the mold of Radke, sans the changeup. He has to establish strike one. Pitching is much easier when you are ahead in the count. He doesn't have the stuff to pitch from behind in the count all of the time. Baseball Reference has a stat called sOPS+ which compares the pitchers splits at various counts versus the league average. Here is what his sOPS+ was:

Ahead in the count: 110
Even: 159
Behind in the count: 140

Liam Hendriks 2012 Pitching Splits - Baseball-Reference.com

Radke's for his career were:
Ahead: 54
Even: 101
Behind 156

For Radke's rookie season:
Ahead: 105
Even: 99
Behind: 125

Hopefully Hendriks finds the command and a more effective second pitch to come even close to Radke. Without a better secondary pitch he tops out as a #3 at best and more likely a #4.

Just for the fact that he's 23 and only going into the second season as a starter means he's defenitely not a flop.

Hopefully he'll get a shot to be the #5 starter this year, assuming the Twins don't sign Saunders. If they sign Saunders, Hendriks will be relagated to a fill in role again which I think might be bad for his developement. I'd like hime to get to a chance to be the #5 and sink or swim.

Then again you have Gibson who I'd like to see as well, but then Pelfrey might not be ready to go and there's chance of injury so Gibson still get his innings as well.

I agree with Parker, he was getting hammered by batters because they were leaning out over the plate on him. I have him as one of the pleasant surprises I expect this year along with Parmalee, so I'm looking forward to seeing him pitch.

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

I agree with Parker, he was getting hammered by batters because they were leaning out over the plate on him. I have him as one of the pleasant surprises I expect this year along with Parmalee, so I'm looking forward to seeing him pitch.

Interesting. Another observation I had, at the game in Oakland last August, was that DH Seth Smith crowded the plate like I don't remember seeing in a while. I was sitting there begging (quietly, as a visitor) any of the pitchers to brush him back until he behaved. It was just Smith though, as I don't remember anyone else doing it to Hendriks - but small differences could easily escape my eye.

Yeah I can't say I have a real nuanced eye, it's just the vibe I remember getting. From what he has for stuff I really don't see why he can't be a real solid arm for this club going forward.

I'm still a big fan of Hendriks, and I'm excited to see what our new pitching coach can do with him

Originally Posted by spideyo

I'm still a big fan of Hendriks, and I'm excited to see what our new pitching coach can do with him

I like Jokin's idea of trying to teach him to throw a good cutter to keep hitters off balance.

Hasn't anyone taught him to throw with some sink? Just sink it and cut it a little.

Originally Posted by glunn

I saw Hendriks pitch in Anaheim last year, in the game where Weaver threw the no hitter.

It seemed to me that Hendriks did not have anything resembling an "out pitch." It seemed to me that the Angels hitters were fouling off a lot of pitches until they got something to hit. If Hendriks could develop an "out pitch" (or something that would at least keep hitters off balance more), then I think that he could be great. I wonder how difficult it would be to teach Hendriks to throw a decent slider or a better changeup. I also wonder if Johan Santana might be available as a pitching instructor after next year.

Exactly as I see it. His fastball barely breaks 90. No significant breaking pitch, hardly major league stuff. Guys with marginal stuff need to throw the right pitches at the right times and Mauer and Doumit aren't great game callers. Butera is pretty good (probably why Pavano liked him so much) but his bat is soooo bad, it hurts just as much on the other end. I'm hoping Steinbach teaches Mauer and Doumit a little something about the art of calling for pitches and framing pitches. If so, the whole staff will be better.

Originally Posted by DelawareTwinsFan

Exactly as I see it. His fastball barely breaks 90. No significant breaking pitch, hardly major league stuff. Guys with marginal stuff need to throw the right pitches at the right times and Mauer and Doumit aren't great game callers. Butera is pretty good (probably why Pavano liked him so much) but his bat is soooo bad, it hurts just as much on the other end. I'm hoping Steinbach teaches Mauer and Doumit a little something about the art of calling for pitches and framing pitches. If so, the whole staff will be better.

Mauer seemed to call a pretty good game in '08-'10. Of all the catcher attributes, I think pitch calling is the most overrated.

Originally Posted by stringer bell

Mauer seemed to call a pretty good game in '08-'10. Of all the catcher attributes, I think pitch calling is the most overrated.

Wow, stringer bell, I couldn't disagree with you more. As a catcher for over 20 years, pitch calling is ridiculously important. Now, while Mauer enjoyed better years with better pitchers, his pitch calling is by far one of the worst for a starting catcher in the league. I will knock Mauer for this until I die.

Go back to watching someone like Henry Blanco. Butera works well with some guys. You'll see the obvious difference. Mauer gets screwed sometimes because of how bad a pitcher misses. He's gotten lazy as a catcher. His footwork has gone downhill every year. His blocking, downhill, every year.

Sad part is how obvious it is. The differnce between me calling a game and one of the other catchers on the team I play/coach... are hits, quality hits and runs, every single game. Same pitchers, different catcher calling a game.

Originally Posted by Haddyz

Go back to watching someone like Henry Blanco. Butera works well with some guys. You'll see the obvious difference. Mauer gets screwed sometimes because of how bad a pitcher misses. He's gotten lazy as a catcher. His footwork has gone downhill every year. His blocking, downhill, every year.

career CERA

Mauer: 4.050
Blanco: 4.320
Butera: 4.55

edit: Doumit: 4.95

Originally Posted by Haddyz

Wow, stringer bell, I couldn't disagree with you more. As a catcher for over 20 years, pitch calling is ridiculously important. Now, while Mauer enjoyed better years with better pitchers, his pitch calling is by far one of the worst for a starting catcher in the league. I will knock Mauer for this until I die.

Go back to watching someone like Henry Blanco. Butera works well with some guys. You'll see the obvious difference. Mauer gets screwed sometimes because of how bad a pitcher misses. He's gotten lazy as a catcher. His footwork has gone downhill every year. His blocking, downhill, every year.

Sad part is how obvious it is. The differnce between me calling a game and one of the other catchers on the team I play/coach... are hits, quality hits and runs, every single game. Same pitchers, different catcher calling a game.

Over the weekend I was near a guy who was watching a replay of a swing by Phil Mickelson toward the end of Saturday's round where he reached 24-under after three rounds. This guy had the confidence to point out several mistakes Phil was making, based on his likely-not-as-similar-as-he-thought experience playing the "same" game. I thought that was pretty bold. Here it is, only three days later, and that boldness has been matched. Good times.