Thread: ESPN's Schoenfield Twins Offseason Report Card

Originally Posted by drjim

I would speak for yourself on this one. Two marginal upgrades and everyone here would be happy? Do you read the majority of postings?

I'm not sure how happy a clam can get, but I know that if they'd bothered to addressing both of those areas- with Marcum and a real major league Shortstop- my Twins happy meter would have gone off the hook.

Calling Marcum a marginal upgrade is marginalizing his upgradiness.

Originally Posted by drjim

I would speak for yourself on this one. Two marginal upgrades and everyone here would be happy? Do you read the majority of postings?

---Saunders or Marcum would have been more than marginal upgrades to the rotation. Let's not forget how truly godawful our starting pitching was. An average starter is a lot better than most of what we saw last year.

And an average shortstop would probably give us a lot more than Florimon will.

I don't know about "happy as clams", but a little more help would have made me a lot happier than I am now.

Agree with the people who felt the observations were shallow. Twins are going through rebuild without calling it rebuild. This year could be bad, but better times are coming hopefully next year.

This is Mnnesota, not New England. The proper term is "happy as a pig in slop."

Originally Posted by jokin

Schoenfeld assigned the letter grade of "D" for the Twins offseason activity- when so much more could have been done with just the hint of an organizational pulse showing signs of life- this is simply unacceptable. In point of fact, you generally cannot transfer a "D" grade on a course for credit when transferring to another university- so it in reality represents a FAIL on the part of an organization so recently injected with a beautiful, revenue-stream paying ball-park, and a club still replete with 2 former MVPs still near the prime of their careers.

Mr.Ryan acomplished just what he wanted to do....

Originally Posted by luke829

A "D"? Whatever, they're a "D+" easily.

D- easy

Originally Posted by jokin

I'm not sure how happy a clam can get, but I know that if they'd bothered to addressing both of those areas- with Marcum and a real major league Shortstop- my Twins happy meter would have gone off the hook.

I remember the offseason before the 2010 season, when we got Hudson and traded for Hardy, I was booming happy. It really doesn't take much to make some of us happy...the FO has conditioned us to expect offseasons like this one, so when offseasons like the one before the 2010 season happened, it was like XMas!

I'll just chime in to say I'd have been happy with Marcum + Saunders

I guess some can be happy with mediocrity. One really useful FA signing rather than a bunch of "arms" would make far more sense to me. I wouldn't have been "happy" but would have pleased that management was going to try to address systemic problems while making some improvement for the 2013 team. I miss Span, but disagree about retaining him because he has "three years of value-service remaining". That feature was likely essential to obtain Meyer in the first place. It is time to see what the other CFers have rather than to continue with Span (and Revere). The "consensus opinion" (whatever) is that the franchise has better OF options than those two and can improve the team by replacing Span and Revere--so to me trading them made sense for both the long term and the short term.
Trade Willingham this off-season? (Add Morneau to this discussion). I counter for what? I would continue that couldn't the same return (or even better) be obtained by waiting? Since I don't know what was offered (for either) I couldn't form an opinion--but I would hate to see Wllingham traded for 1 high-upside, Class A pitcher and then watch the Twins sign Kevein Correia-type OF to replace Willingham until the MiL affliates produced his replacement. The 2013 team will be bad enough with Willingham, replacing him with a placeholder (and a pitching prospect) would be disastrous.

Originally Posted by johnnydakota

Mr.Ryan acomplished just what he wanted to do....

yes, I'm sure Mr. Ryan's goal was to build a losing team... I'm not terribly happy about the offseason, but there are some extremes on this board that border on ridiculous. I'd give Ryan a pretty poor grade for 2013 for much the same reasons everyone else did, but he set this team up very nicely for 2014/15 and beyond, and given the state of the team, that makes far more sense than spending everything to win now. Hopefully, come this July, he's flipping Morneau and Willingham for a SS and an SP that can help as well.

Hey, I would have preferred Marcum and/or McCarthy over Correia, but people are vastly overrating those guys (and Saunders) if they think it would have been much more than a marginal upgrade (win or two, maybe three if they have a great and healthy season and Correia completely collapses). If that is enough to have made you so much more happy with this offseason then your standards are much lower than I thought.

Originally Posted by drjim

Hey, I would have preferred Marcum and/or McCarthy over Correia, but people are vastly overrating those guys (and Saunders) if they think it would have been much more than a marginal upgrade (win or two, maybe three if they have a great and healthy season and Correia completely collapses). If that is enough to have made you so much more happy with this offseason then your standards are much lower than I thought.

This response was pretty predictable. Calling them "marginal" upgrades is a bit silly not because they are great players, but moreso because our options last year really were THAT awful. Even signing an average pitcher is more than a marginal upgrade. Much less Marcum who has been well above average.

Sign two SP, SS, and 2B each that can post a 1-2 WAR improvement (shooting from the hip only here) and all of a sudden we could be approximately 8 wins better. Where is the line between "only a few extra wins" and "enough wins to matter"? I yearn for competent competitive baseball To watch all season, even if its not winning baseball.

Going from godawful to mediocre is more than a marginal upgrade.

Now in the case of Correia, you're talking about going from godawful to just plain awful. That's a marginal upgrade.

Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack

Going from godawful to mediocre is more than a marginal upgrade.

Now in the case of Correia, you're talking about going from godawful to just plain awful. That's a marginal upgrade.

But he's been awfully durable.

Originally Posted by edavis0308

Sign two SP, SS, and 2B each that can post a 1-2 WAR improvement (shooting from the hip only here) and all of a sudden we could be approximately 8 wins better. Where is the line between "only a few extra wins" and "enough wins to matter"? I yearn for competent competitive baseball To watch all season, even if its not winning baseball.

I guess the conclusion I'm drawing from drjim's argument is that we have to wait to sign players that are 5-6 WAR before we bother? I'm not sure what qualifies as more than "marginal".

What about Marcum and Haren? That would have bred some optimism in my soul. Maybe the Twins and Astros are just both angling for Carlos Rodon come the 2014 draft.

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

I guess the conclusion I'm drawing from drjim's argument is that we have to wait to sign players that are 5-6 WAR before we bother? I'm not sure what qualifies as more than "marginal".

Right, but then we can't even give money away to get them.

More BEER!