3-1?

Really? They actually looked pretty decent today. Ponder wasn't very good, but he didn't lose them the game (which is all they were asking I think). They were never really in a position to have to make big plays. AP is back I think and this defense is legit. The secondary really came to play today and having a good safety in Harrison Smith is making it obvious why the pass defense has been so horrible. I don't know if they can beat the elite teams with Ponder, but they already beat SF and the Lions. They really need a receiver that can make big plays to get to the next level. Harvin is great, but he can be neutralized in the passing game.

Only complaint is, it seems we have to keep our star running back on the field for 4th quarter mop up duty now. Defense has been pleasant surprise. Offense is boring but doesn't cough up the ball. Might have a chip chair and a chance

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Originally Posted by Badsmerf

They really need a receiver that can make big plays to get to the next level. Harvin is great, but he can be neutralized in the passing game.

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I really don't think that's the issue - Harvin is a true force. The issue is under center. Ponder was really jumpy and consistently had more time than he seemed to think he had. Overall, for playing a defense that Locker lit up last week this was not an impressive showing in the air. Again, they're winning in ways that can be maintained, but to think they are anything special with as bad as this passing game has been for the better part of three of the four games this season is a bit too optimistic for me.

I agree to a point. Sometimes Ponder gets on a roll and looks pretty good. That didn't happen at all in this game. I really don't like him very much and continue to think it was a wasted pick, but he could prove me wrong. I think the entire forum went into meltdown mode after the announcement of his pick. At least he is young enough to have a chance to improve.

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Originally Posted by Badsmerf

I agree to a point. Sometimes Ponder gets on a roll and looks pretty good. That didn't happen at all in this game. I really don't like him very much and continue to think it was a wasted pick, but he could prove me wrong. I think the entire forum went into meltdown mode after the announcement of his pick. At least he is young enough to have a chance to improve.

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He didn't have a great game, but he didn't make any mistakes either, most of the game they were playing with a lead so I can't be real upset in how he did. Keep in mind there were also two long pass interference calls that don't technically count for his stats, but got them into FG range. It's nice to see Simpson appears to be a deep threat for this team.

Again, Ponder will never be some elite QB, but as "bad" as he was this game, he still completed 61% of his passes and didn't turn the ball over. It we are going to bash him for this game, we gotta give him a ton of credit for his game against SF. They still need some more help for him on the WR end. Percy was guarded heavily all game, Simpson showed some promise, but freaking Jenkins looks absolutely awful. Also, Carlson is proving to be one of the worst signings in quite some time.

The Special teams were obviously impressive, and the defense looked pretty damn nice out there. The secondary still has a ways to go, but it was really nice to see such aggressive play. Smith had a few nice plays, and that play were they knocked the ball out of Megatron's hands for the TD was awesome.

vs. TEN and @Was both look like pretty winnable games at this point. Who would have thought the Vikes actually would have had a legit shot at a 5-1 start?

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Again, Ponder will never be some elite QB, but as "bad" as he was this game, he still completed 61% of his passes and didn't turn the ball over. It we are going to bash him for this game, we gotta give him a ton of credit for his game against SF.

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Part of the issue is that he was really good against a tough SF defense.....and then laid a miserable egg yesterday against a woeful defense. That's a major thing I was looking for in this game was for him to develop consistency. This was a step backward.

To me the most pleasant surprise is that I thought the linebackers were going to be awful and they've been a really solid unit. I didn't see Brinkley becoming the kind of player he's looked like but damn the kid is playing the middle well so far.

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Again, Ponder will never be some elite QB, but as "bad" as he was this game, he still completed 61% of his passes and didn't turn the ball over. It we are going to bash him for this game, we gotta give him a ton of credit for his game against SF.

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Part of the issue is that he was really good against a tough SF defense.....and then laid a miserable egg yesterday against a woeful defense. That's a major thing I was looking for in this game was for him to develop consistency. This was a step backward.

To me the most pleasant surprise is that I thought the linebackers were going to be awful and they've been a really solid unit. I didn't see Brinkley becoming the kind of player he's looked like but damn the kid is playing the middle well so far.

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I'm not sure how he laid a miserable egg yesterday, he didn't miss that many passes (the one bad screen pass stood out), and any time he threw it long it either seemed to be caught by Simpson, or they got a pass interference call on Simpson. The Lions seemed focused on making sure Harvin wouldn't beat them in the passing game which stymied things a bit, ideally Simpson can continue to grow a repore with Ponder. Was a little dissapointed to not see Rudolph involved much in the passing game this week. In a perfect world I think you give Harvin 10-12 targets. Simpson 8, Rudoplh 6-7, and Peterson 2-3. (Everyone else is pretty moot at this point, God Jenkins is awful)

The linebackers and safties were awesome yesterday, I LOVE the tenacity they are playing with. The secondary will continue to be an issue, but if you have a pretty good front 7 you can at least take a little of the burden off them. Maybe they can go out and trade for a CB at some point this year?

A Toby for a CB swap? I like Toby, but still think he doesn't really serve any purpose on this team. Peterson should be getting 25 carries a game, and the rest (5-7 can goto Harvin) or some other dude they grab for nothing. Trade Toby while he still has some value/potential to make an impact on another team.

Either way the Vikes are in a really good position now, not only are they 3-1, they are 3-0 against the conference and 1-0 against the division, the one loss sucks but at least it was against the AFC. Tenn at home should be a definite win. Washington on the road is tough but they can win that game. Tampa Bay at home is a win, and Arizona at home honestly should be a win as well. Obviously that would put them at 7-1, which I can't really see hapening, but even with a loss in there they do have a shot to start out the first half of the season at 6-2, though things obviously get a lot tougher after that. @Seattle prob a loss, and Det in Minn won't be easy but is winnable.

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

I'm not sure how he laid a miserable egg yesterday, he didn't miss that many passes (the one bad screen pass stood out), and any time he threw it long it either seemed to be caught by Simpson, or they got a pass interference call on Simpson. The Lions seemed focused on making sure Harvin wouldn't beat them in the passing game which stymied things a bit, ideally Simpson can continue to grow a repore with Ponder. Was a little dissapointed to not see Rudolph involved much in the passing game this week. In a perfect world I think you give Harvin 10-12 targets. Simpson 8, Rudoplh 6-7, and Peterson 2-3. (Everyone else is pretty moot at this point, God Jenkins is awful).

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First off - on what do you base that Jenkins is awful? Second, Ponder averaged 4.3 yards per attempt. That's miserably awful. 111 yards against the same defense that Jake Locker and a less impressive group of skill players lit up for almost 400 yards is a miserable egg. Back off your instinct to be an apologist. It was a step backward after a major step forward, that's what it was.

From my perspective, it seemed like Ponder was afraid to make a mistake. Maybe the play calling was vanilla, but with AP carving up the defense Ponder still wasn't able to open it up. This team is going to be successful this year just because this defense is elite and the ability of AP and Harvin to make big plays. They need receivers in the worst way. That has to be a major failure by this staff in the offseason/draft.

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Originally Posted by Badsmerf

From my perspective, it seemed like Ponder was afraid to make a mistake. Maybe the play calling was vanilla, but with AP carving up the defense Ponder still wasn't able to open it up. This team is going to be successful this year just because this defense is elite and the ability of AP and Harvin to make big plays. They need receivers in the worst way. That has to be a major failure by this staff in the offseason/draft.

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Yeah that was my read on Ponder too. He was way too conservative and really jumpy. I watched the game again and the guy just really seemed to be feeling pressure that wasn't there. It's hard to know what the receivers were or were not doing when he seemed to shift his eyes to the pressure almost immediately, often even when his protection was fine.

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Originally Posted by Badsmerf

From my perspective, it seemed like Ponder was afraid to make a mistake. Maybe the play calling was vanilla, but with AP carving up the defense Ponder still wasn't able to open it up. This team is going to be successful this year just because this defense is elite and the ability of AP and Harvin to make big plays. They need receivers in the worst way. That has to be a major failure by this staff in the offseason/draft.

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Ponder has his limitations. He's never going to have that John Elway arm. But you can build around his flaws. Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl and look at how Alex Smith has evolved in San Francisco when they started giving him more tools to work with. Those two probably represent Ponder's upside. And there's something to be said for a quarterback who knows how to manage the game. Even in the Lions one, you can give Ponder credit for realizing he didn't need to go downfield. He really wasn't in any situations where he needed to throw it deep. He needed to be smart with his passes and let AP find the open holes to keep him in second and manageable and third and short.

With that said, you're right that he needs a receiver and probably an upgrade on the right side of the line as well, or at the very least the left guard who can move Johnson to the right side or the right tackle who can move Loadholt inside to guard. The bright side is Justin Hunter, Robert Woods and Keenan Allen are probably all better bets than Justin Blackmon, with Allen being very similar to Blackmon albeit an inch taller. And he's probably the worst of the three mentioned. The downside is that a 7-9 record may take you out of a position to land any of them.

Ya these aren't your '98 Vikings. If Ponder can dink and doink the ball at 70% clip and not turn the ball over, that should be enough. Unless we get down two scores early, then we need pick 6s or kick returns to get back into the game.