Thread: Marlins are Ridiculous (Johnson, Buehrle, Reyes and more)

If this deal is so lopsided that the commissioner should be fired, why are people defending the Twins for not making it?

At least the city of Miami still has that beautiful stadium they so desperately wanted.

Originally Posted by USAFChief

If this deal is so lopsided that the commissioner should be fired, why are people defending the Twins for not making it?

Nobody is really defending the Twins for not making it. Its just Twins fans are so use to our front office being complacent that we arent surpised that the Twins did pull this trade off themselves.

Originally Posted by righty8383

Originally Posted by AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

We all knew it would happen. Loria just like Pohlad are cheap as hell. Pohlad pulled a fast one on Minnesota and Loria pulled a colassal fast one on Miami. Either way as long as Pohlad owns the twins we will always be a cheap team.

Totally disagree...The Pohlads are not my favorite choice for owners either, but I would take them any day over Loria. Loria is a shameless pig and a thief. He's a leach on major League baseball and if I were another owner I would take any steps necessary to have him removed as owner of the Marlins

I've never been one of the knee-jerk over-the-top critics of Twins management and ownership, but I've just got to say this much: While what Loria is doing just one year after opening his new publicly funded ballpark deserves all of the criticism he's getting, I think what the Twins have done over the past two years is not a lot less reprehensible. It's a matter of degrees, certainly, since the Twins jacked up salaries for one year and, since then are apparently allowing it to fall back while making little effort to field a championship caliber team over the course of 2-3 seasons, rather than just one, as Loria is doing.

The Baker deal and the Hunter deal, both going for about twice what some folks (including the TwinsCentric crew) projected, along with the Jays' trade, clearly indicate to me that SOME teams are willing to step up immediately and start spending money now rather than waiting until the new MLB media rights deal pumps the additional $25 million in revenues in to their pockets.

Spending 50% of revenues on MLB payroll was quite possibly a very legitimate business model for the Metrodome Twins. I've never believed that their expenses rose so much at Target Field that maintaining that model was necessary. There's certainly NO reason that holding back half of the $25 million in additional media revenues that kick in during 2014 is necessary.

If the Twins do nothing but shop in the bargain bins and nibble around the edges this offseason, without making any legitimate effort to improve the product on the field in 2013, their ownership very well may deserve to be lumped in with the Jeffrey Lorias of the world. Twins fans, especially those who are paying for most of their new stadium, deserve better just as much as Miami residents do.

Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

I've never been one of the knee-jerk over-the-top critics of Twins management and ownership, but I've just got to say this much: While what Loria is doing just one year after opening his new publicly funded ballpark deserves all of the criticism he's getting, I think what the Twins have done over the past two years is not a lot less reprehensible. It's a matter of degrees, certainly, since the Twins jacked up salaries for one year and, since then are apparently allowing it to fall back while making little effort to field a championship caliber team over the course of 2-3 seasons, rather than just one, as Loria is doing.

The Baker deal and the Hunter deal, both going for about twice what some folks (including the TwinsCentric crew) projected, along with the Jays' trade, clearly indicate to me that SOME teams are willing to step up immediately and start spending money now rather than waiting until the new MLB media rights deal pumps the additional $25 million in revenues in to their pockets.

Spending 50% of revenues on MLB payroll was quite possibly a very legitimate business model for the Metrodome Twins. I've never believed that their expenses rose so much at Target Field that maintaining that model was necessary. There's certainly NO reason that holding back half of the $25 million in additional media revenues that kick in during 2014 is necessary.

If the Twins do nothing but shop in the bargain bins and nibble around the edges this offseason, without making any legitimate effort to improve the product on the field in 2013, their ownership very well may deserve to be lumped in with the Jeffrey Lorias of the world. Twins fans, especially those who are paying for most of their new stadium, deserve better just as much as Miami residents do.

Tough to argue with some of your points. I guess my main point is that while the Pohlads may not spend money like we wish they would, at least they aren't taking revenue from other teams (like the Marlins have and soon will again) and put it in thier pockets.

Not sure how many fans the Marlins are gonna have left. I do feel sorry for any loyal fans that might remain with that team. Just like a feel bad for anyone that was a loyal Expos fan before Loria alienated that fanbase and ran the team into the ground.

Where do you get 50M from? Marlins clearly states it dump 40M plus they throw in 4M so now you are down to 36M.

The Marlins have been in existence for 20 years and have 2 World Series championships in that time. How many do the Twins have in a similar period? And 1 of those championships was under present ownership (and both came after fire sales).

I'm not defending Marlins ownership here but I really think that the Twins need to rethink the 50% policy. There are times for bringing up young players and rebuilding -- and spending less than 50%. Then there are times that the team is mature and the team should be spending significantly more than 50%.

There's certainly no reason that the Twins couldn't spend more than 50% on a regular basis (larger revenues should allow you to assign a larger percentage to player personnel) but at a minimum, they need to rethink the overall policy.

Originally Posted by JB_Iowa

There's certainly no reason that the Twins couldn't spend more than 50% on a regular basis (larger revenues should allow you to assign a larger percentage to player personnel) but at a minimum, they need to rethink the overall policy.

To expect them to do that, one would have to assume their goal is to win a W Series championship...as opposed to creating a team to be competitive within the division

The Marlins can't compete with the Nats & Braves so they cash in. They will still probably beat the Mets.



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Originally Posted by USAFChief

If this deal is so lopsided that the commissioner should be fired, why are people defending the Twins for not making it?

I have very little idea how good the players the Jays sent the Marlins are, but as I was reading this thread I was asking myself this same question. And it's not even a matter of different posters taking up different extreme sides as there are cases of the same poster making both claims. (That the deal was ridiculous and awful by the Marlins AND that the Twins were wise not to be on the other end of it). I don't get that.

Originally Posted by ThePuck

Originally Posted by JB_Iowa

There's certainly no reason that the Twins couldn't spend more than 50% on a regular basis (larger revenues should allow you to assign a larger percentage to player personnel) but at a minimum, they need to rethink the overall policy.

To expect them to do that, one would have to assume their goal is to win a W Series championship...as opposed to creating a team to be competitive within the division

Well, I don't expect them to do so. I would have no problem with suffering through miserable seasons if I saw it as part of a rebuilding mode. But I don't see that with the Twins. I honestly believe that their primary goal is to be "just good enough" to keep b*tts in the seats for most of the season. I wish they'd do SOMETHING that would convince me that they are genuinely interested in winning a championship not just making a profit. (That something wouldn't have to be a major free agent signing -- it could just be making some genuine trades to improve the ballclub in the long-run rather than just last-minute dumps of players they don't want to re-sign.)

Time to calm down everyone, the Marlins totally redeemed themselves, they just signed John Maine.

Originally Posted by JB_Iowa

I honestly believe that their primary goal is to be "just good enough" to keep b*tts in the seats for most of the season. I wish they'd do SOMETHING that would convince me that they are genuinely interested in winning a championship not just making a profit. (That something wouldn't have to be a major free agent signing -- it could just be making some genuine trades to improve the ballclub in the long-run rather than just last-minute dumps of players they don't want to re-sign.)

Exactly

A la contraire, I think the Marlins are making a good move. They are dumping lots of money and getting some pretty good prospects. They admit they made a huge mistake last year, and they are ready to rebuild. That's better than the Twins and Vikings last year, where we thought we could still be good when we're a last place team! Time to re-build! The Marlins are saving themselves from pain in the future.

Originally Posted by nicksaviking

Time to calm down everyone, the Marlins totally redeemed themselves, they just signed John Maine.

Umm they did not sign John Maine, they signed Scott Maine a relief pitcher with the Blue Jays who was designated for assignment with a 6+ ERA

I thought the FAs last year by the Marlins was foolish, and window dressing for their new stadium. That they realized this (or maybe this dump was in their plan all along) was a smart idea. The 2012 Marlins were a bad ballclub and needed to be "blown-up". If MLB owners wanted more competition--they could simply reduce the revenue sharing (and the luxury tax) formula which would force all teams to compete to sell tickets and build revenues. But when a team can operate on a minute payroll, sell a few thousand tickets per game--and still make a handsome profit--then it's MLB's problem. The owners are the only ones that can fix this. Other threads are available for discussion of how the Twins should proceed.

Loria is bad for baseball. Is this where we are headed.

A team such as the Twins, bereft of talent in minor leagues, can sign the top 4 free agents by outbidding everybody this year on back-loaded contracts without no-trade clauses just so they can sell them to other organizations next year for an influx of young talent. A way to get some tradeable assets without giving anything up to acquire good young prospects.

How does anyone know for sure that Terry Ryan wasn't on the phone with the Marlins trying to pull the deal together and the Marlins chose the Blue Jays offer.

Just because the trade was made with the Jays doesn't mean that the Twins didn't put their best foot forward.

I don't think money is the issue... They could have made the trade and salary dumped Morneau and payroll would have been pretty reasonable.

Its quite possible that the Twins didn't have the trade chips that interested the Marlins to pull the deal off.

Sometimes it seems the bubble we live in is a little blinding. We have anger at TR because two other squads made a trade. How does this make sense?