So if it comes down to spend it or give to ownership ...I say spend it, buy a couple of good free agents, then trade them come july to add to your minor leaque system,that way Ownership gets to keep half the money and we get some good young players,for the future
It's foolish to judge the success or failure of an offseason by some subjective threshold of total payroll. The idea you can pluck up multiple players and trade them requires there to be several factors go perfectly. There are two spots the Twins could upgrade in FA and there are a myriad of factors beyond their pricetag that would be a reasonable basis for the Twins to avoid that route.Quote:
find it to confusing to stash money away for the future.
[QUOTE=TheLeviathan;192163]They switched out contracts of players with no future on the team and who weren't helping them for players who can. Would you have slept better at night if they handed Blackburn 20M for next year just so you could say the payroll increased?
I was talking about 2012 ,but if you want to talk about 2013 ,fine lets talk about the 3 starters we added....Nolasco a # 4 type starter on a good team , he was the safest free agent avalible , in this off season , next we signed Hope(hughes)
we Hope he can maintain his splits away from Yankee stadium, but what if it isnt the stadium , but home field? then what? Next we sign a Pitcher with a very hitable 97mph fastball who has a career ERA of what? 4.48, now several here say oooh wow 2 big contracts what a change in way we are doing business....
wrong answer, all we did was trade out a couple hitters salaries and Blackburns for 1 decent pitchers and some HOPE, but ,as we sit now we are almost the same dollar amount as last year when we finishged with 96 losses.
now I know your gonna say look at the Rays and the A s , but guess what our leadership aint as good, and never will be , We dont draft and develope as good ,We dont manage as good,we dont trade as good.So our only chance is to sign quality ...not quanity
All FAs have warts. The Twins didn't sign world beaters but they were aggressive (very early signings) to address needs. (pitching) There also isn't anything close to a world beater left. Save some of those bullets for the next go at things.
Nolasco signed , and you can read what I had to say (good signing Terry)
then Hughes, and it was( ok this guy has had a couple of pretty darn good years and his splits are good)...next it was Pelfrey and ,correct me if I am wrong , most here just were not happy about this 1...then Terry stopped, we had reached our payroll of last year and its time to put away the checkbook and wait and see.
to me you keep spending, maybe you dont keep all your free agents for the entire year, you use them to make some trades come june and july, for young arms and prospect to fill the holes we have in our system. Or you sign a Garza to say a 3 year 51 million dollar contract and front load it 20, 20 and 11 million
now in the 2nd season we can trade him during the season or in that winter when he is owed only 11 million , there are ways to use the money thats avalible and not block prospects but actually add to your system,and still have bullets for the future
Can you trade a free agent after a year in theory? Sure you can. But can you guarantee that you'll be able to move that player after a season? Absolutely not. It's an incredibly risky strategy and one that could burn a team badly if it fails.
There's a reason why no team uses this strategy consistently. Not one.
You sign the players you want on your team for the length of years you want them. Don't try to get cute with complex machinations based on multiple variables.
So, to say that "there have (sic) always have been free agents..." is only partially true. The "freedom" of a free agent was retained by the parent club until 1975. The collusion of the owners depressed the market for free agents. The rise of player agents in the late 70's and 80's further strengthened the bargaining power of labor--the players.
Indeed, the "build from within" model was much more in force before 1975. I would suspect that there were some teams that were built entirely from within--especially before 1975, but I have neither the energy nor desire to do that research.
(Postscript, Chief: In post #30, above, you contend that I want the Twins to build entirely from within, and then sign free agents and trade for players. I never said that. Your quote: "If you are asking the team to wait until they are in contention before they make a trade, and/or add free agents, then that is precisely what you are saying: build a contender entirely from within, and then add to it. " Your analysis lacks precision. I agreed, earlier in the same post, that the Twins made the right strategic decision by aggressively signing two free agent pitchers in the earliest phases of this past offseason. It was a good move, a regrettably necessary move, only because the Twins have failed to develop and retain quality starting pitchers, from within the organization.)
My big beef with this off season is Pelfrey. Why bring him back? Could just as well get a 95 MPH pitching machine to put on the mound every 5th game.
Florida Marlins , Prince fielder...Yes you are correct about maybe a player gets hurt, or maybe he doesnt play as well as you hoped, but if you sit at home with your tinfoil hat on, afraid to make a mistake, you will miss out on many oppertunities. last seaon we got 3 pretty darn good starters( not my words) and a pair of magic beans(my words) where are our magic beans this year?there are 5 avenues to getting players , national and internation draft, rule 5 draft, trading ,signing quality free agents and of course dumpster diving. to me if your not using all avenues conssistantly you are not doing your job... but hey maybe thats just me
As far as spending we have extra income , that if not used will be lost , it will disappear into a blackhole never to be seen again, so use it, even if you dont spend it all at least use most of it, as we sit now we have used about 33% of the 50-52% we are allowed to spend.
I have a nasty hunch, mike, that the dozens of staffers evaluating Sano and Buxton will have a terrific grasp on whether these players are ready for the bigs. You and I have absolutely zero clue.
Just because someone is not employed by a major league baseball team, does not mean they don't know what they are talking about. There are plenty of knowledgeable, thoughtful and intelligent posters here. I think a lot of them know a great deal of what they are talking about.
I also don't think most of them believe the Twins FO doesn't know what they are talking about. I think some rightfully question certain decisions, is that inherently wrong?
Your one example is dubious at best. And the Marlins? Is there an organization more universally despised? No one is going to want anything to do with them. Their titles were a lifetime ago.
Typically, if I'm going to go around banging the drum of "here is what works" - I have better than two crummy examples to base that on.
They did use all of them this year. Last year that criticism was very valid. This year? I think it requires a tinfoil hat to suggest they didn't.Quote:
to me if your not using all avenues conssistantly
So you only want to commit money this year? Are you suggesting one year deals? If you're not, the salary commitments you make now impact future years. Given that this team is still a few years off, I'd rather incrementally address the needs. That's a better strategy to maximize your money rather than spending just to spend.Quote:
As far as spending we have extra income , that if not used will be lost
If you want to argue it should've been Garza and not Pelfey, fine. But that's not what you're doing.