Morris was the team ACE on 3 different World Series Champions....not a #2 winning a total of 58gms in those 3yrs.
Have no problem using his ERA against him (even in the DH AL) & thats why he's had to wait, but he will get voted in this year as the best pitcher of his middle 14yr era (79/92) when he was the only guy with over 190wins (233) & pitched 500 more innings than anyone during this period (reason for higher ERA?) while finishing 2nd in Ks, 3rd in WAR @ 51.8 (behind Ryan/Clemens). He was the pitcher of his era & that included Nolan Ryan
In 92, he had 21wins but they also started Morris gm 1 of both ALCS & WS meaning Cito Gaston had him as their #1. 91, he wasnt the 3rd best pitcher...he was the most consistent as Erickson was first half, Tap was 2nd & Jack was solid all yr long. He pitched over 240 innings in both of those years.....ace style.
Crime Dog is the classic borderline guy. I tend to err on the side of exclusivity, so I'd probably vote 'Nay' if I had a vote.
As far as McGriff's spikes, remember that he lived during an era of expansion. That really drastically affected numbers in the year or two following each expansion.
I was blessed to watch him play daily. I'd compare him to that era's Paul Konerko. You put Fred McGriff on the Yankees during his career and he's in. You put Paul Konerko on the Red Sox currently, and he's considered one of the best players in the entire game. As both should be.
The trouble with a lot of this is perspective. Jack Morris isn't close. He's simply not. He was not much better than other starters around him every year...until it came time for the playoffs. Curt Schilling is a similar pitcher as far as turning it up in the playoffs, but he was also one of the 2-5 best pitchers in the entire game for years.
The awards argument is a crap one, though. MVP voting is so moronic nearly 90% of the time. If I were to go back year by year, I'd wager that not one season in the last 30 was there a top 5 in both leagues that included the top 5 actual players that season. Using WAR is difficult because of the defensive statistics used and the weight against pitchers in general. It's hard to tell who belongs from generation to generation. We've all seen how poor the writers understand the modern game in their awards, and they've got more access to truly compare players than they ever have had before. Even in 1995, comparing Fred McGriff to Barry Larkin would have been very difficult for a writer from San Francisco who have seen all of a few games of each during the season in person and another handful on television during the year. Now any writer wanting to compare players can review baseball reference or watch every game via MLB.tv. Yet, even now, voters screw up ALL the time, so comparing how a guy did on award voting is about as useful as having them all drop trousers and getting out the ruler in determining who was a better player.
I'd say no on Dale Murphy. Great player, but not for enough of his career.
I know the HOF voters get flack for their insistence on longevity. But at the same time, you can't start inducting every guy who strung together a few great seasons. If that were enough, then there's a whole slew of guys who should be in, Tony O., Don Mattingly, Dave Parker, Albert Belle, Steve Garvey, etc.
But every time you loosen standards like that, it becomes less a Hall of Fame and more a Hall of Very Good.
The Hall of Fame is sort of a joke regardless. There are many players inducted who were not good let alone great and many players who should have been inducted who weren't. The voters on this really aren't the brightest bulbs. That said, neither Morris or McGriff are HOF worthy.
It's not hyperbolic to assume Konerko will end up with anywhere between 500-550 home runs, with 2,500 hits and 1,700 RBI. He'll get there because he's proven very effective as a DH. Throw in the fact he was essentially the captain on the team that won his franchise's first WS in 90 years and has led several others into the post season and you've likely got a first ballot HOFer. And it terms of the guys who vote, the fact Konerko is one of the most respected guys in the game, helps him. There's no reason, at this time, to think Morneau will ever match Konerko's resume.
What is this nonsense about not being sure about Barry Larkin? Is the HOF going to be a 1B/OF and a couple of pitchers from now on? Larkin was one of the best SS's in baseball for most of his career.
A guy like McGriff was very good but he was a 2nd tier player for most of his career because there are so many great 1Bman. Out of the guys currently on the ballot I would vote in Bagwell, Edgar and McGwire before McGriff, Delgado and Palmeiro (he's probably off by now). Thome and Thomas are definitely ahead of McGriff also when they are eligible. Konerko (and Ortiz) falls right into the McGriff and Delgado tier when he becomes eligible. I won't be upset if some of the fringe guys make it in but I doubt 2B/SS combined come close to matching the numbers of 1Bman in the hall from the 90's/00's. I'm all about Alan Trammell making it before the 2nd tier 1Bman.
I'm curious to see how many RP start making the hall of fame in the future, Rivera obviously is a lock but I wonder if other guys can sneak into the conversation as well.
I agree Kab, Edgar and Bagwell certainly belong in the hall over McGriff. And I actually think he is behind Delgado, and no way do I think Delgado deserves to get in.