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Thread: MLB.com's Top 50 Prospects Show

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by username View Post
    going for singles when you have 50 HR power is idiotic. ive heard people say this about ichiro too. if this is true then both of them are retarded.
    Yeah, I've heard the Ichiro story, like he can hit quite a few HR in batting practice. I don't recall Ichiro ever saying he could hit 50 HR in a season. I would not buy it anyway.

    Ted Williams was hitting 35-38 HR already. He of course, was not short on confidence and perhaps, borderline arrogance, but he made sense when he said at 2 strikes, he would shorten his swing and work a walk or solid contact. He wasn't going to strike out. He could have just said, to hell with it, and swung as hard as he could. To hit another 15 HR a season, and drop his average .30 pts...eh...not sure it would have been more valuable...less walks too.

    I agree with Ferguson, he only qualified for the league OPS 13 seasons, and he led MLB 11 seasons of those 13. That's retarded. He was over 1.036 OPS every single year, but one. And that was at age 40...while having multiple injuries.

    Miguel Caberera and Jose Bautista are the only players in 3 years (either league) to surpass that number, and barely.

    Ted Williams, at age 41, had 1.096 OPS (weighted, 190 OPS+), both better than any season Miguel Cabrera has ever had.

    That is, Ted Williams, at his lowest point, better than this generation's best hitter. While also having a 75-42 BB/SO ratio.

    Four seasons, he had more HR than SO's. Unreal.

    I've only seen highlights, but I just think that Babe Ruth and Ted Williams were unlike any other hitters, in any generation.

    Defense? Meh, at best. Base runners? Babe was caught stealing a LOT. Ted, had no wheels. But those guys, at the dish, with a stick in their hands. Babe had a solid arm I guess.

    All around players, athletes, to good at every phase of the game, well, that's another story. You have to weight the areas of important too.
    Last edited by twinsfan34; 01-25-2014 at 07:58 PM.

  2. #42
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    Great stuff about Williams, I did not realize his numbers were that spectacular. He was as he said he wanted to be known as when he walked down the street: "There goes the greatest hitter that ever lived". So, who is #2 then if not the "Babe"? The "Man" perhaps?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsfan34 View Post
    Yeah, I've heard the Ichiro story, like he can hit quite a few HR in batting practice. I don't recall Ichiro ever saying he could hit 50 HR in a season. I would not buy it anyway.

    Ted Williams was hitting 35-38 HR already. He of course, was not short on confidence and perhaps, borderline arrogance, but he made sense when he said at 2 strikes, he would shorten his swing and work a walk or solid contact. He wasn't going to strike out. He could have just said, to hell with it, and swung as hard as he could. To hit another 15 HR a season, and drop his average .30 pts...eh...not sure it would have been more valuable...less walks too.

    I agree with Ferguson, he only qualified for the league OPS 13 seasons, and he led MLB 11 seasons of those 13. That's retarded. He was over 1.036 OPS every single year, but one. And that was at age 40...while having multiple injuries.

    Miguel Caberera and Jose Bautista are the only players in 3 years (either league) to surpass that number, and barely.

    Ted Williams, at age 41, had 1.096 OPS (weighted, 190 OPS+), both better than any season Miguel Cabrera has ever had.

    That is, Ted Williams, at his lowest point, better than this generation's best hitter. While also having a 75-42 BB/SO ratio.

    Four seasons, he had more HR than SO's. Unreal.

    I've only seen highlights, but I just think that Babe Ruth and Ted Williams were unlike any other hitters, in any generation.

    Defense? Meh, at best. Base runners? Babe was caught stealing a LOT. Ted, had no wheels. But those guys, at the dish, with a stick in their hands.


    Babe had a solid arm I guess.

    All around players, athletes, to good at every phase of the game, well, that's another story. You have to weight the areas of important too.
    Good stuff in your post, twinsfan. But I'm not sure if the highlighted sentence is tongue in cheek on your part, or not. Babe was one of the best 3-5 AL SPs in the game at ages 21 and 22 ( Babe was second only to Walter Big Train Johnson in 1916). Had he just continued his career as a Starting Pitcher and part-time OFer, he would have undoubtedly qualfied for the HOF on those merits alone.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy10 View Post
    Great stuff about Williams, I did not realize his numbers were that spectacular. He was as he said he wanted to be known as when he walked down the street: "There goes the greatest hitter that ever lived". So, who is #2 then if not the "Babe"? The "Man" perhaps?
    Yea, I'd probably put Stan #3 - though with some competition.

    I'll also need to admit, that Stan "The Man" Musial is my favorite all time player. I've read a lot on him. Listened to quite a few interviews. Seen highlights as available. And the guy is just someone I look up to in every way. He handled things with such poise.

    From people asking him what he'd hit "against today's pitching" and he paused, responding, probably around .280. The reporter gasped, really only .280?! Stan responded, "Well, I'm 80 years old" with a wink. To asking for a pay cut. (A link for some stories, some found in the comments too) to plays where it was clearly a fair ball and him saying to the affect, "what's the point of arguing about it" and just getting in the box and doing it again. I played the same way - likely because I read of guys like him and well, John Wooden is another who really resonated with me.

    But more than that, Stan's just a great hitter. I love the triple too, my favorite and toughest hit to get. So I have to fess up to all those 'giddy' biases.

    But that aside, I'd probably put Stan at #3 or at least against in the mix. I find Lou Gehrig's 1934 and 1936 seasons to be unworldly spectacular to me, and they're the only two of their kind actually.

    200 hits
    100 BB
    40 HR
    More BB's than SO's (nearly 3 to 1 actually)
    And more HR's than SO (49/46 and 49/31).

    Also hit over .350 and 150 RBI...but yea...just the hits, walks, number of homers, and having more HR's than strikeouts.

    I do enjoy watching some of the HR competitions and interviews and the stats of guys like Mickey Mantle and Harmon Killebrew. And I have great respect for Joe DiMaggio and Willie Mays. I love what the OPS+ and these weighted stats do for players. It at least tries to take into account the hitters advantage at Fenway and Yankee stadium or any other stadium for every particular stat...triples to average to home runs. Really helps to be able to compare across decades and even players within a decade.

    Of today's hitters, I don't think we realize just how good Albert Pujols was this past decade. A .330 hitter during that stretch, with great power, and a great eye, and the fact he too, almost had the amazing more HR's than SO's season, including 9 seasons where he was within 25 or fewer strikeouts of his HR total for that season. In 2006 he hit 49 HR, struck out 50 times, and walked 92 times. So almost double BB to SO total.

    I'd also put Frank Thomas in there, as the type of guy who can win the game, but also "the game won't end with me getting out" type of player. They can work a walk and a strikeout just wasn't going to be something that happened very often.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Good stuff in your post, twinsfan. But I'm not sure if the highlighted sentence is tongue in cheek on your part, or not. Babe was one of the best 3-5 AL SPs in the game at ages 21 and 22 ( Babe was second only to Walter Big Train Johnson in 1916). Had he just continued his career as a Starting Pitcher and part-time OFer, he would have undoubtedly qualfied for the HOF on those merits alone.
    Yes, you're right. I probably undervalue Babe in a way. I read some where it seemed he was 'impatient' to 'careless' (maybe a little less poise) in other areas of his game. Possible also over-analytical projection-esque on my part too. Or maybe that fact he was such a good hitter.

    He had 9 shutouts in his first full season as a SP...I think there's only been 4 seasons in the AL since then (1916) with more shutouts.
    Last edited by twinsfan34; 01-26-2014 at 10:40 AM.

  6. #46
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    More on "The Man" - Watched Bob Costas's eulogy on youtube, simply terrific. During it Bob mentioned doing the eulogy at Mickey's funeral also. He says......As I was speaking all of the ex players were grouped together up at the front but I glanced half way down the aisle and saw Stan standing by himself. He had gotten on a plane from St. Louis and flew to Mickey's funeral all by himself just to pay homage to a great fellow player. Then quietly slipped out and returned again to St. Louis. That is just about all we need to know about the classiness of "The Man", isn't it? YouTube probably still has Bob's eulogy on Stan and Mickey's also I would imagine.

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