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Thread: Heroin addiction

  1. #21
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    You're not going to see a serious heroin addict rationalizing that they can spend $10 more and go legally buy their heroin. They're going to call up their dealer and spend that $10 more to get an extra .1g.
    You can heavily tax something and still keep it close enough to the black market price to reduce the profit margins of criminals. Business models about moving tobacco from cheaper states to more expense ones isn't exactly going to buy anyone a yacht or their own crime syndicate. It's akin to moon-shining really.

    Most of these chemicals are legal in various forms already. The potency available illegally is precisely because it reaches unsafe levels rather than what might be used for recreational purposes. I tend to believe that most users would be content with regulated levels of even hard drugs if they were no longer criminalized and more accessible.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Double-A
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    Narcotic opiate drugs are not legal in various forms without doctor prescription. And comparing the business models of black market cigarettes to heroin really isn't valid. Terrorist/criminal organizations, cartels, etc trafficking heroin across the globe is a whole different ballgame than Joe Shmo buying 10 cartons of smokes when he drives through New Hampshire and selling them for a few bucks profit in New York.
    A few quotes, just for reference to the magnitude of the heroin trade:

    According to a U.N. sponsored survey,[7] as of 2004, Afghanistan accounted for production of 87 percent of the world's diacetylmorphine.[78]Afghan opium kills around 100,000 people annually.


    About 15 million people around the world use heroin, opium or morphine, fueling a $65 billion market for the drug and also fueling terrorism and insurgencies: The Taliban raised $450 million to $600 million over the past four years by "taxing" opium farmers and traffickers, Antonio Maria Costa, head of the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, said in a report.


    Regardless, I don't think legalization of heroin is anything we will see in our lifetime.


    Edit: Realized my post seems a bit angry, which is not my intention. No disrespect meant to anyone. Good discussion.
    Last edited by S.; 02-05-2014 at 10:13 PM.

  3. #23
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    Narcotic opiate drugs are not legal in various forms without doctor prescription. And comparing the business models of black market cigarettes to heroin really isn't valid.
    Didn't mean to imply that, I sort of merged my response to Dave and to you to the same quote. Yes you need a prescription, but they aren't all that difficult to obtain. The price is more of a deterrent than that is.

    My point about organized crime vs. the black market as Dave suggested falls right into line with what you're saying. Loose black markets will always exist, but legalizing these drugs will do massive damage to actual criminal organizations. Which is a good thing IMO.

  4. #24
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    I lived in Denver 4 years ago, and this was very much the case with marijuana there at the time. I knew a few people with MMJ cards who were recreational smokers with no legitimate health issues and they all said it was very easy to find a doctor who would write you a relatively bogus script for a MMJ card for the right cost and then you could buy from the dispensaries (it was decriminalized at the time, but not legalized). On the other hand, if you knew the right people, you could simply buy directly from the same people who were supplying the dispensaries with their weed, cut out one of the middle men, and save money.

    For some people the convenience of being able to walk into one of the many dispensaries any time they wanted and peruse a variety of strains of weed was worth the mark up and cost of acquiring their MMJ card. For a lot of people, weed is weed is weed, and if they could call up their buddy who grows and pay $40, they really have no reason to go to a shop and pay $50.

    When it comes to hard drugs with very serious addictions, I'm positive this gap would be even more significantly pronounced. You're not going to see a serious heroin addict rationalizing that they can spend $10 more and go legally buy their heroin. They're going to call up their dealer and spend that $10 more to get an extra .1g.


    In terms of the general discussion of the popularity of heroin, it definitely started getting more prevalent as the companies producing prescription opiates starting making them harder to abuse, and then continued to rise in popularity as a lot of the Florida pill mill doctors started getting shut down. As the pills were made to be harder to abuse, and the supply of easily abusable opiates started slowing down a bit, the price of pills started going up and for a lot of people with significant addictions, they could not afford to maintain their level of use with pills. From there, heroin was the obvious next step for a lot of people because they could get their same level of high for an absolute fraction of the cost.
    I think for the most part, the dealers go away. Keep in mind, if it's legal, it isn't terribly profitable for them. They lose tons of business. I do agree that a black market can form due to over-taxation, but as it is right now, buyers pay an inflated price due to the inherent risk associated with it. Pot is cheap, if it was legal and untaxed, it would be much much cheaper than it presently is. If you legalized it and taxed it, I don't think the prices would drop much for your average user. What it would do is provide a safer means for them to get their supply, eliminate billions spent yearly on fighting the "war on drugs" which quite frankly is a huge waste of money, and bring in extra money to the states.

    This is true of many illegal activities, and in a free country, I just don't see how it is we should be able to stand up and tell people what they can and cannot do so long as they are not depriving other citizens of their own rights...

  5. #25
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S. View Post
    Narcotic opiate drugs are not legal in various forms without doctor prescription. And comparing the business models of black market cigarettes to heroin really isn't valid. Terrorist/criminal organizations, cartels, etc trafficking heroin across the globe is a whole different ballgame than Joe Shmo buying 10 cartons of smokes when he drives through New Hampshire and selling them for a few bucks profit in New York.
    A few quotes, just for reference to the magnitude of the heroin trade:




    Regardless, I don't think legalization of heroin is anything we will see in our lifetime.


    Edit: Realized my post seems a bit angry, which is not my intention. No disrespect meant to anyone. Good discussion.
    Something to chew on... For all the talk about the Taliban in Afghanistan. They had banned the growth of opium right before we took them out. It was a death penalty to grow it. The US came in, and Afghanistan is back to being one of the top global producers of the drug.... Think about that for a second...

  6. #26
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    This is really two separate discussions, one surrounding the effect on users and one surrounding the effect on crime. Legalization or decriminalization of drugs would undoubtedly lead to a decrease in the associated crime that occurs with illegal trafficking and the enormous costs, both fiscally and socially that go into fighting it. Decriminalization in particular would get rid of the absurd street level and user punishment that most populates the courts and prisons, taxes the resources of law enforcement and stigmatizes lower socio-economic demographics.

    On its own though it would not have much effect in the rate of usage or addiction among the population unless accompanied by a public health program designed to help people with that addiction. Legalization nor decriminalization eliminates the harmful use that drugs can have on people by itself, a large part of the social cost would still exist and that needs to be addressed. Portugal provides an interesting test case of this example. Although there are different views on what constitutes success, there has seemed to have been positive results on many fronts from that country decriminalizing all drugs.
    Last edited by twinsnorth49; 02-06-2014 at 09:46 AM.

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