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Thread: Emilio Bonifacio DFA'd

  1. #141
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    I would have traded for Bonofacio. I still don't understand how he isn't a perfect fit for us.
    He doesn't get after it? He's thirty and he still has his tail, it apparently not being battled off?

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    He doesn't get after it? He's thirty and he still has his tail, it apparently not being battled off?
    He is a gamer though.....

  3. #143
    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I'm not at all surprised. If you're a utility guy and you are not a wiz with the glove, you better carry more lumber than he has in his career. Plus, at age 30, he's in decline. Better to give opportunities to guys with upside, even if it means you're marginally worse than you would have been with the veteran. Maybe a minor-league deal?
    Picking nits here, but my math says that he is 28, but will play almost all of the 2014 as a 29 year old.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    He doesn't get after it? He's thirty and he still has his tail, it apparently not being battled off?
    Emilio would appreciate that it be known:

    BD= 4/23/85, with tail still intact.

  5. #145
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    He signed a minor league deal with the Cubs.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by old nurse View Post
    He signed a minor league deal with the Cubs.
    2.5 million plus another 425,000 in incentives posible ,so he could make his 3.5 millon yet this year

  7. #147
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Dang it!!! I'm ok... I just gotta walk it off.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

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  9. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnydakota View Post
    2.5 million plus another 425,000 in incentives posible ,so he could make his 3.5 millon yet this year
    Not bad for a "minor league" deal. I'm pretty sure Bonifacio had multiple options available to him and went for the one that all but assured him making the 25 man out of ST.

    $2.925M as a replacement cost at the utility spot for Jamey Caroll's $3.75M from last year, without giving up a prospect, would have represented a good value for the Twins. Too bad the Twins didn't pursue this a little more aggressively.

    On the bright side, maybe this means that they are hoping that Buxton, and possibly Santana are closer than we think, and might prove themselves ready for a call-up after the All Star break?

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  11. #149
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    The manager of the Cubs Rick Rienteria gave Bonafacio the ringing endorsement of "he doesn't hurt us". Bonafacio will probably be stashed in the minors untill one of the prospects falls flat. Not a bad idea for the Cubs. Not a good one for Bonafacio unless his agent figures on the prospects falling flat. Maybe the Cubs figure figure they can hold onto him and get a prospect forr him like they did with Borbon.

  12. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    The manager of the Cubs Rick Rienteria gave Bonafacio the ringing endorsement of "he doesn't hurt us". Bonafacio will probably be stashed in the minors untill one of the prospects falls flat. Not a bad idea for the Cubs. Not a good one for Bonafacio unless his agent figures on the prospects falling flat. Maybe the Cubs figure figure they can hold onto him and get a prospect forr him like they did with Borbon.
    Sounds like exactly the type of endorsement that a 26th man veteran should receive.

    Yes, he's signed as an insurance policy with potential underlying value on a team that will have prospects playing at multiple positions and many of whom may need to be spelled or optioned back to AAA. Kind of exactly the same situation that the Twins are in. And a cheaper insurance policy than Jamey Carroll was in 2013. And if they get an offer for Darwin Barney, they have someone they can plug in immediately. It sounded like there were 8 or 9 clubs interested with multiple offers, and this one was chosen as it may give Bonifacio the best chance to stick in the majors, and possibly get traded to a contender if/when the need should arise.

    The Cubs didn't get a prospect for Borbon, although they do employ that strategy as a matter of routine. The Orioles took Borbon away from the Cubs in the Rule 5 draft. They also frequently look to seek value from fringe players- look what they got for Danny Valencia.
    Last edited by jokin; 02-16-2014 at 04:20 AM.

  13. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Sounds like exactly the type of endorsement that a 26th man veteran should receive.

    Yes, he's signed as an insurance policy with potential underlying value on a team that will have prospects playing at multiple positions and many of whom may need to be spelled or optioned back to AAA. Kind of exactly the same situation that the Twins are in. And a cheaper insurance policy than Jamey Carroll was in 2013. And if they get an offer for Darwin Barney, they have someone they can plug in immediately. It sounded like there were 8 or 9 clubs interested with multiple offers, and this one was chosen as it may give Bonifacio the best chance to stick in the majors, and possibly get traded to a contender if/when the need should arise.

    The Cubs didn't get a prospect for Borbon, although they do employ that strategy as a matter of routine. The Orioles took Borbon away from the Cubs in the Rule 5 draft. They also frequently look to seek value from fringe players- look what they got for Danny Valencia.
    Carrol was not signed to be the 26th man. Carroll declined rapidly in 2013 as a 39 year old player. You can argue 2013 Carrol versus 2014Bonifacio all you want. One has nothing to do with the other. Different years different situations.

    9 some pages into this thread you finally acnowledge that Bonafacio now is not a major league quality player.

    You missed th point. When Borbon was picked up by the Cubs it was said that they could flip him for a prospect. If the Cubs were anticipting Bonafacio to be an asset, they ouht to remeber what they gt for Borbon.

    Baltimore got a 28 year old outfielder with 400 plate appearances in the big league. Lst year he had a lessthan league average OPS for outfielders. e did get one vote in the rookie of the year balloting, which probably means the KC writer with a vote gave it to him.

  14. #152
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post

    9 some pages into this thread you finally acnowledge that Bonafacio now is not a major league quality player.
    2,299 at bats do not happen to players who are not major league quality.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

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  16. #153
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    Dang it!!! I'm ok... I just gotta walk it off.
    Rub some dirt on it, and for God's sake don't let the other team see you wince.

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  18. #154
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    2,299 at bats do not happen to players who are not major league quality.
    Every year, guys who are major league quality regress below the line of being major league quality. I'm not saying Bonifacio is there yet, but the risk is pretty high that he is close because he wasn't far above the line for most of his career, with the exception of one year. It's just not worth investing in marginal upgrades if you are trying to develop players. You get into a cycle of mediocrity in which you never give the kids the opportunities they need to develop. If it's a clear upgrade, fine, but not guys who spend most of their careers as replacement players.

    One note on this thread: My last point is often used when the Twins do sign an aging veteran stop gap, like Bartlett, as an argument that they should not have signed said player. In this case, the self same posters are dismissing it out of hand as somehow not relevant. It makes me think that their opinion starts with being negative of whatever decision or non-decision the Twins brass make and trying to fill in the argument for their opinion with cherry picked data.

    I looked at the data and immediately thought he wasn't worth it. In Bartlett's case, he has actually been significantly above replacement level for long stretches of his career. So, if he can get back there, he is a clear upgrade. If not, they lose nothing. In Bonifacio's case, one year does not a career make. For him to get back to his career average is not a clear upgrade for any of the other candidates already in the system. And, it turns out, if he fails, they lose some dollars that might come in handy down the road.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  19. #155
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    It makes me think that their opinion starts with being negative of whatever decision or non-decision the Twins brass make and trying to fill in the argument for their opinion with cherry picked data.
    For emphasis.

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  21. #156
    Speediest Moderator All-Star snepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    And, it turns out, if he fails, they lose some dollars that might come in handy down the road.
    I'd buy that, if they didn't already have $30 some million other dollars sitting around doing nothing.
    "Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
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  23. #157
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Every year, guys who are major league quality regress below the line of being major league quality. I'm not saying Bonifacio is there yet, but the risk is pretty high that he is close because he wasn't far above the line for most of his career, with the exception of one year. It's just not worth investing in marginal upgrades if you are trying to develop players. You get into a cycle of mediocrity in which you never give the kids the opportunities they need to develop. If it's a clear upgrade, fine, but not guys who spend most of their careers as replacement players.

    One note on this thread: My last point is often used when the Twins do sign an aging veteran stop gap, like Bartlett, as an argument that they should not have signed said player. In this case, the self same posters are dismissing it out of hand as somehow not relevant. It makes me think that their opinion starts with being negative of whatever decision or non-decision the Twins brass make and trying to fill in the argument for their opinion with cherry picked data.

    I looked at the data and immediately thought he wasn't worth it. In Bartlett's case, he has actually been significantly above replacement level for long stretches of his career. So, if he can get back there, he is a clear upgrade. If not, they lose nothing. In Bonifacio's case, one year does not a career make. For him to get back to his career average is not a clear upgrade for any of the other candidates already in the system. And, it turns out, if he fails, they lose some dollars that might come in handy down the road.
    For the record... I'm for running anything up the flagpole. After last year... I was crying for position competition. We had sub par years in compared to expectation from everyone not named Mauer, Dozier or even Florimon. Yes Florimon because he wasn't expected to hit.

    Yet under performers kept playing everyday because no one could take their place. Bono could have played a role like that.

    We were a one dimensional team (power) that did not get that dimension. It was station to station baseball while Brian Dozier led the the team in home runs. No power... No speed and you can't win the close game and winning the close game is how improvement toward .500 happens.

    I'm ok with Bartlett but I was more OK with Bonofacio because his skill set was a bigger need for the current Twins. Backup 3B CF Leadoff skills and Speed. Moveable when Sano comes up... Moveable when Hicks comes up... Easily cut when they all come up.

    However... I trust Twins management... My vision very rarely matches up with anyone else's... Let alone the Twins Front office and I do not think the Twins are goofballs for not executing what is in my head. Nor do I think anyone else on TD is a goofball for not seeing what I think.

    I thought he was a perfect insurance policy for Plouffe not hitting homers and playing like a Pylon at 3B and insurance for Presley struggling in CF... Plus a great Corner OF defensive replacement for Hammer, Kubel or Arcia with a late lead or a Pinch running option when trailing late in games. I can't think of anyone who can plug all those holes and we have all those holes.

    The Cubs are going to love him. They just signed a backup for Lake, Ruggiano, Valbuena, Barney and even Castro.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

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  25. #158
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    I'd buy that, if they didn't already have $30 some million other dollars sitting around doing nothing.
    Yeah. I hear ya. But I don't think people run businesses like that. No matter how much cash you have, you still want to be prudent with your investments. My company's not hurting, but finance watches every dollar and tries to find ways to cut costs all the time. The finance guys have to earn their paychecks too.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  26. #159
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    Some people accuse others of being negative all the time, for disagreeing with a particular move......maybe people see this guy as having multiple positional value, on a team with question marks everywhere but 1B, and see Barlett as having 1 position. Maybe it is possible to disagree with the Twins, and not somehow be bad/wrong/evil.

    Perhaps we could just dispense with the attacks on posters all together, and talk about the decisions being made.
    Lighten up Francis....

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  28. #160
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    Bartlett was signed as an insurance policy in case Floriman does not improve and Jason looks like there is still some gas in the tank(unlikely). This is the type of no cost signings many teams do, we can still hope Santana can get here next year or that Polanco or Dozier can play SS when Rosario comes up. Do not need to spend dollars for a one year possible improvement.

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