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Thread: What would be a successful 2014 for the Twins?

  1. #81
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    Aren't the fundamentals taught, and if so, how do you feel about the coaches in the minors and majors?
    Lighten up Francis....

  2. #82
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Aren't the fundamentals taught, and if so, how do you feel about the coaches in the minors and majors?
    Taught is one thing, learned is another. A first year Calculus class is a prime example of this.

  3. #83
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    But they have been bad for three years....and they aren't single A players in their first year....
    Lighten up Francis....

  4. #84
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    But they have been bad for three years....and they aren't single A players in their first year....
    From a fundamentals standpoint, I put a lot of that on coaching.... up to a point. There's obviously an intellectual quotient needed and some people are smarter than others... that's just life.

    The problem with this team in the last 3 years though is that there's an ability issue here too, and on this team, there aren't a lot of guys who have an ability that far exceeds that of their peers. We have those guys coming up in the minors, but there are 6 levels they have to rise through to get it. We unfortunately cannot plug an A baller into the lineup and expect him to do well, so until the guys with ability mature, we are stuck with what we've had..

    As for sucess, I'm with Levi and the others. Not expecting a ring... or even playoffs. But I do expect progress and hopefully a lot of watchable baseball.

  5. #85
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    To be clear, I'm not expecting playoffs either...quite the opposite. But that's not how I read the question.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  6. #86
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Win 1 playoff game.

  7. #87
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    Success for me is being able to watch a game and hope, and be surprised, that the Twins are actually not a doormat: that they make plays, that guys surprise, that you can see potential in young players and start to visualize what the future holds: Possibility.

    That's how it was in '64, in '84, and in '90. Even in '92 they were a hell of a good team to watch and root for.

    The last years, not so much. In fact, this has been a depressing run, without redemption on any level.

    A fan watches because she wants to see something unexpected, and uniquely hopeful, about the team she idolizes. Watching for the sake of watching makes it just a waste of time.

    So give me something unexpected, something without a ceiling, something that makes me want to come back and see more. Statistics, numbers, positions, ERA's, that's not what motivates my fandom. It's the actual athleticism and moment by moment effort to realize three outs, or three runs, that builds the case for excitement, and success, in a team.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Aren't the fundamentals taught, and if so, how do you feel about the coaches in the minors and majors?
    Plouffe was a second baseman in the minors. Dozier was a SS. Parmelee and Collabello were 1B. How would you expect them to be fundamentally sound when they are learning new positions at the major league level?

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  10. #89
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    The last couple of years have largely been wasted. The Twins learned little about prospects, almost no one came up and was good, and they still played old guys with no future (thinking they could somehow compete last year?).
    There's some truth to this, but I think it can be expected at the same time. If the Twins would've had more players that could come up and be "good", we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Problem is, we didn't have enough of those around.

  11. #90
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay View Post
    There's some truth to this, but I think it can be expected at the same time. If the Twins would've had more players that could come up and be "good", we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. Problem is, we didn't have enough of those around.
    The only guy I think the Twins have unnecessarily jerked around is Parmelee, actually. He should have been out there everyday in 2013 because "why not?"

    Other than that, I struggle to see how the Twins have wasted seasons, other than fielding too many bad players on the roster. Arcia got time last season. Gibson got time last season and after seeing him in the Majors, Ryan was right to keep him down for as long as he did. They pushed Hicks too hard and he imploded. Plouffe, when healthy, has played every day. Dozier was awful until he wasn't but received a lot of playing time to sort it out.

    After that, what players with upside are left? Do we really care if guys like Colabello get playing time? No offense to Colabello but his upside is almost zero.

  12. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    The only guy I think the Twins have unnecessarily jerked around is Parmelee, actually. He should have been out there everyday in 2013 because "why not?"

    Other than that, I struggle to see how the Twins have wasted seasons, other than fielding too many bad players on the roster. Arcia got time last season. Gibson got time last season and after seeing him in the Majors, Ryan was right to keep him down for as long as he did. They pushed Hicks too hard and he imploded. Plouffe, when healthy, has played every day. Dozier was awful until he wasn't but received a lot of playing time to sort it out.

    After that, what players with upside are left? Do we really care if guys like Colabello get playing time? No offense to Colabello but his upside is almost zero.
    I was thinking the same thing in regards to wasted opportunities. Parmelee strikes me as the only player who should have played more to see what we have. Some might argue Gibson should have been up sooner, but his results when he came up don't necessarily support that. I don't see a bunch of guys at AAA who should have been up last year. We had a significant gap in talent for a few years in our minor league system. Failure to shore up that gap in FA is why we have stunk for three years. This is the year we really need to start seeing some help from the minors. When they come up they need to play, like Hicks last year. Give them a significant chance and see if they are ready, not a half dozen at-bats a week. I hope Gardy understands that, because I'm not sure he has always been on board with that in the past.

  13. #92
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    i would argue that Gibson should have been up earlier, as it seemed he got tired. But it may have just been "talent", which would be depressing.

    As for wasted years, we'll just diagree. Signing and playing Doumit was a waste. If you are going to lose, sign AAA free agents or trade for blocked guys, or spend some real money (more like this year) on good players, not on crappy players. I don't know how to look at the last three years as anything other than a waste of time for the most part. They were bad, they were old, they didn't go get young players at the MLB level......yes, it is clear they minors have been improved, and that part was not a waste. But man, the MLB team, it was worse than treading water, imo. YMMV, of course.
    Lighten up Francis....

  14. #93
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    To me, they were wasted because ABs and Innings were devoted to players with little upside and little trade value even if they succeeded.

  15. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    To me, they were wasted because ABs and Innings were devoted to players with little upside and little trade value even if they succeeded.
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    As for wasted years, we'll just diagree. Signing and playing Doumit was a waste. If you are going to lose, sign AAA free agents or trade for blocked guys, or spend some real money (more like this year) on good players, not on crappy players. I don't know how to look at the last three years as anything other than a waste of time for the most part. They were bad, they were old, they didn't go get young players at the MLB level......yes, it is clear they minors have been improved, and that part was not a waste. But man, the MLB team, it was worse than treading water, imo. YMMV, of course.
    You're both talking about free agents. I didn't want the Twins to break open the bank the past two seasons but I definitely wanted to see them acquire better players than they signed.

    So that's fair. I was under the misconception that people were complaining about prospect playing time... And my rebuttal is that there weren't many prospects worth playing the past two years.

  16. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Signing and playing Doumit was a waste.
    That was 2012. In 2011 they signed Nishio-... wait, weren't we talking about 2014?

  17. #96
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    Success would be approaching .500 with a good Sept. Some good performances by Sano or Bruxton at end of the season would bring hope for 2015
    .

  18. #97
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    Get within shouting distance of .500 while seeing 3-5 young players advance and solidify themselves as everyday players or rotation locks for the foreseeable future.

  19. #98

    Defining success for Twins in 2014

    With the Twins (most likely) done this off-season and spring training rolls in, what exactly are we looking for this year? As the roster stands, this team should be marginally better than the previous 3, yet likely won't make a run. With that said, what should fans base opinions on what a successful 2014 would be?

    Does the team need to be at .500? Do we need to see the debut of Sano, Meyer, and possibly Buxton? Do we need to see bounce-back type years from players like Florimon, Hicks, Diamond, or Worley? Do we need to see even more success or improvement from Arcia, Mauer, Pinto, or Dozier? Do we need evidence that Nolasco and Hughes were good purchases? Do we need to make good trades at the break with Willingham, Correia, Swarzak?

    These are just some ideas I came up with and I'm curious what all of you think we need for 2014 to be a good step towards something great.

  20. #99
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    You might want to look at this earlier thread:

    http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php...-for-the-Twins

  21. #100
    Woops! Sorry guys, lol. I guess I missed that one

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