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Thread: Really? No consideration during 2010 negotiations that Mauer might not catch?

  1. #1
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Really? No consideration during 2010 negotiations that Mauer might not catch?

    I find this statement from today's Strib article baffling:

    "Every factor that the Twins and Mauer’s representatives could think of was discussed, projected and appraised before an agreement was reached. Every factor but one.


    “I don’t think there was ever any expectation on either side,” Mauer’s agent, Ron Shapiro, said, “that Joe would be anything but a catcher.”

    http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/244562131.html

    I know many (most?) fans thought he'd catch longer than through 2013 but almost all of the boards were discussing how long he'd catch and how many games he'd catch as he aged.

    I can't believe that it wasn't part of the negotiations. (I'm not calling Shapiro a liar, I'm just stunned).

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    wagwan (02-09-2014)

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    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    I suppose they were thinking in terms of a Pudge Rodriguez type of career. Stuff happens.

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    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    I don't think that would have affected the negotiations in any way...

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    jm3319 (02-09-2014)

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    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Pudge was about 5 foot 7 with his cleats on. You don't see many every day catchers as tall as Mauer, so we are fortunate Mauer lasted as long as he did!

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    Remember, this was the same club that traded Wilson Ramos for a relief pitcher and kept Drew Butera as the sole backup for several seasons, ensuring virtually zero depth behind Mauer and a parade of AAA nobodies once Mauer went down for an extended period in 2011. The evidence already strongly suggested they overrated Mauers ability to stay at catcher (and long-term catcher health in general). This new nugget adds very little (although like Seth, I am not sure what difference it would have made anyway).

  8. #6
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Shapiro and Joe probably never gave it a thought, but you can bet the Twins thought about a possible move in that time. But like has been said, it wouldn't of made any difference, and why should it?

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    gunnarthor (02-10-2014)

  10. #7
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    What it most illustrates for me is the difference between the thinking/discussion in negotiations versus the detailed analysis of WAR and declining phase players, etc. that tends to take place here at TD.

    I would guess that a consideration of health and longevity did play into the Twins' analysis of the situation but it doesn't sound like it was really discussed between the parties to the contract. It would indicate to me that the Twins put, perhaps, even more emphasis on the need to retain the "hometown hero" than I thought initially. And I try to contrast that with, for example, the Pujols-St. Louis situation.

    I just would have thought that when they were extending a 6'5" catcher through his age 35 season that there might have been some discussion about long-term health and position.

  11. #8
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    I have no inside info but every impression I've ever had... Was that Joe wanted to catch and that was the position he wanted to play and the Twins management always understood that.

    Joe likes the Tools of ignorance and I don't blame him. It's the best position on the field in my opinion.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

  12. #9
    Senior Member Double-A
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    I just would have thought that when they were extending a 6'5" catcher through his age 35 season that there might have been some discussion about long-term health and position.
    I understand your sentiments, but Joe would have received more from other teams. The offer was fair considering the market, and if they wanted him, they had to pay. I really believe the decision comes down to just that. Quite frankly, with free agents I believe teams take all these factors into account (whether publicly or not) and it comes down to whether you will outbid the other person.

    It's kind of like a charity auction I was at a while back and bidding on a Kent Hrbek signed ball. Was the ball worth the cash for the people bidding (short term, hell yes), but in the long term maybe I'll see Kent in a bar sometime....
    I will one day successfully sneak onto the Sportive Podcast, and have nothing intelligent to say or add to the conversation.

  13. #10
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Frankly, I'm neither surprised nor dismayed that they didn't talk about position during negotiations.

    Why? Because it wouldn't have impacted dollars or years one bit. Joe was going to get big money. He wanted to catch. He was in the driver's seat during negotiations after his 2009 season.

    If something changed down the road (as it did), then make the call at that point.

  14. #11
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpitefulRabbit617 View Post
    Welcome to the Beating a Dead Horse zone of TD. Meh, We'll probably see Mauer on the road to .400 this year.
    I don't consider it beating a dead horse for this reason (and this was the point I was really trying to make earlier):

    Many posters, when looking at signings (especially major ones over a significant number of years) get caught up in analyzing the player's potential WAR and the likelihood of a decline over a number of seasons -- and that would definitely include a position change.

    What this article pointed out to me, is that those factors -- which are so popular to discuss on the boards -- may be discussed internally but may very well not be discussed in negotiations between the parties. I thought it was a little bit of insight as to what was actually said at the bargaining table.

    Does anyone know if Shapiro's book about the Mauer negotiations is out yet?

  15. #12
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    Does anyone know if Shapiro's book about the Mauer negotiations is out yet?
    Published last November. Available both in print and e-book formats.

    "Perfecting Your Pitch: How to Succeed in Business and in Life by Finding Words That Work."

  16. #13
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Thanks!

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