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Thread: Article: Did Terry Ryan Act Too Aggressively in Free Agency?

  1. #1
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Article: Did Terry Ryan Act Too Aggressively in Free Agency?


  2. #2
    Well, let's look at this on the other side. What if he waited and didn't make a move and these dude's signed somewhere else. Without signing these guys, we'd look like the Orioles. I used to like that organization, but the way the conduct business shows the fanbase that they really don't care about the team. TR listened to the fans, well we can think that, when signing these three guys pretty quickly. Keep it coming next year!

  3. #3
    Senior Member All-Star
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcarlic View Post
    Well, let's look at this on the other side. What if he waited and didn't make a move and these dude's signed somewhere else. Without signing these guys, we'd look like the Orioles. I used to like that organization, but the way the conduct business shows the fanbase that they really don't care about the team. TR listened to the fans, well we can think that, when signing these three guys pretty quickly. Keep it coming next year!
    Yes, I agree. Just because Garza, Santana and Jiminez signed/are signing late doesn't mean the Twins would get a bargain on them. Last year Ryan was telling the MLB Network that he couldn't get guys to come here. For all we know, these three would be the kind of arms who have no interest in coming here for whatever reason.

    Besides, I've been one of those complaining that Ryan was too passive and conservative, I'm certainly not going to hypocritically flip sides now.

    It does seem like the Twins don't have luck on their side though. Usually the free agents that wait until February to sign are either very questionable or out of the Twins price range. Now the one year the Twins were willing to spend money, these guys look to be taking late season discounts; alas the bankroll has been depleted and the roster spaces are nearly full.

  4. #4
    Statements Do Matter
    But that approach doesn't really have the same paradigm-shifting effect as signing two pitchers to unprecedented contracts by early December, does it?


    Agreed, but I feel as though the front office made the key part of the "statement" with Nolasco, and it would have been just as effective both statement-wise and roster-management-wise if they hadn't made one of the two subsequent deals with Hughes and Pelfrey.
    I think it's good that the team acted early in free agency, but I also think they hamstrung their own flexibility for the back half of the offseason.

  5. #5
    Hindsight is always 20/20. Sure we can second guess all day long whether we overpaid for Nolasco. I would rather have this conversation in May when we can look at Nolasco's and Garza's numbers.

  6. #6
    I really dislike articles like this... Second-guessing, just for the sake of trying to be controversial; luring people in to agreements over meaningless retrospect. You can go back and second guess just about anything in life, but what's the point? What do you gain by it? It's rubbish...

  7. #7
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmarais66 View Post
    I really dislike articles like this... Second-guessing, just for the sake of trying to be controversial; luring people in to agreements over meaningless retrospect. You can go back and second guess just about anything in life, but what's the point? What do you gain by it? It's rubbish...
    Did you actually read the article or just react to the headline? Guessing the latter.

  8. #8
    Senior Member All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    In terms of value, in hindsight, it appears aggression was not the best move this offseason. But in general it is the best way to act. So I can't criticize the team at all. It didn't work out for them but the strategy was sound and will be sound in the future. So I think one can fairly assess the strategy as having been less effective this year than it usually is without blaming Ryan for it. He did the right thing, it just didn't work as well as it usually does.

    Also, Nick may want to brace for bizarre arguments that in terms of talent Nolasco = Garza. I still haven't wrapped my head around that.

  9. #9
    I think it's a fair question to ask, but I don't think the Twins had a choice. They are desperate for pitching and everyone knows it. And as mentioned above, they were going to have to overpay to get people to come pitch for a 90 loss team. Would I rather have Garza than Nolasco at that money? Sure, but there's still no guarantee Garza would have come here. And as far as the prices dropping on Jimenez and Santana....they're still holding out....so who knows. I'm sure the Twins made overtures to all these guys...but in the end we can't wait around forever.

  10. #10
    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    So if you don't sign those guys in December, they sign with someone else and you're relying on your chances of getting Garza to choose a reunion with Gardenhire/Anderson over pitching for the Brewers in the National League? And if you're wrong about those chances, you're sitting there with nothing but, perhaps, outbidding Arizona for Arroyo? No thanks. Just because Garza signed for less than expected, you don't second guess the aggressive approach. Not when you absolutely needed multiple rotation additions.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Nelson View Post
    Did you actually read the article or just react to the headline? Guessing the latter.

    I read it... That's why I commented... Should they have? Could they have? It's pointless....
    Last edited by gmarais66; 02-10-2014 at 11:34 AM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    No, he didn't act too aggressively.

    You learn lessons in different ways and in different situations. For a lot of reasons, Ryan needed to do something early -- and, as you mention, he could afford to do it. (Even now, it's not like they've raised payroll by much).

    Has TR as GM ever had the flexibility or the need to be as aggressive in free agency as he was this year? Perhaps only in 2012/2013 and I'm not sure he had as much payroll flexibility then (although he seemed to have more than he used).

    In the long run, its about finding a balancing point on whether to lead the market or sit back. But the situation varies for each team each season.

    I'm pretty much so-so on the Pelfrey signing. I don't think it was a great step but I don't think it hurts that much either.

    And bringing Garza back to the Twins always seemed like a really long shot to me.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Double-A
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    Read the title of this article [threw desk over], read first line of article......[calmly spent the morning picking up around the office].

    Terry Ryan, making it rain?

  14. #14
    I applaud TR for his quick signings. With the Twins selling out most games at Target Field, fans should no longer have to worry about saving a few million dollars to get inferior players as we have in the past--and in a few years, keeping Sano, Buxton, Meyer, etc. Terry Ryan has always been astute finding players in the bargain bin. Now that he has the money to shop where the top teams shop, we should see significant signings to plug holes and once again make the Twins winners sooner than later.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Hard to fault TR for not wanting to be late to the party. The need was obvious, they identified who they wanted and got it done, kudos.

    I don't think anyone saw the Garza deal coming or Jimenez and Santana still being unsigned mid February. I'd be curious to see what the feeling would be around here if all TR had done was signed Pelfrey by now, would people still be talking about bargains or saying to raid the piggy bank before it's too late?

  16. #16
    Senior Member All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    The Twins signed two relatively good-health starters, who under performed their peripheral statistics. While we might argue that the talent of Santana, Jimenez, and Garza is better than what Twins fetched, the attached draft picks and relative health and inconsistency of the these three are prohibitive for a team so desperate for pitching and far from contention.

  17. #17
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmarais66 View Post
    I read it... That's why I commented... Should they have? Could they have? It's pointless....
    So you're complaining about second-guessing in an article where the basic premise is, let's not second-guess these moves because the strategy behind them was solid? Cool.

    Whether you like it or not, the question posed in the header is a talking point among fans, especially after Garza's signing. This has been a very unusual offseason in terms of how the pitching market has played out, and it's worth re-examining the team's approach under the circumstances, IMO. But thanks for sharing your valuable insight on the matter.

    I'm pretty much so-so on the Pelfrey signing. I don't think it was a great step but I don't think it hurts that much either.
    Agreed. People just need to view the Pelf signing for what it is: a cheap veteran addition to the back of the rotation with a bit of upside. The nice part about his low salary (esp relative to Arroyo) is that it wouldn't be too tough to move him aside in favor of a younger talent should the need arise.

    So if you don't sign those guys in December, they sign with someone else and you're relying on your chances of getting Garza to choose a reunion with Gardenhire/Anderson over pitching for the Brewers in the National League? And if you're wrong about those chances, you're sitting there with nothing but, perhaps, outbidding Arizona for Arroyo? No thanks.
    Well, the other argument is that they could still be competing to sign Santana or Jimenez, who may both be better than any of the names mentioned, but I don't have much issue with shying away from the draft pick compensation. That's a lot to give up in order to bring on risk-saddled pitching contracts.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Triple-A
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    In terms of value, in hindsight, it appears aggression was not the best move this offseason. But in general it is the best way to act. So I can't criticize the team at all. It didn't work out for them but the strategy was sound and will be sound in the future. So I think one can fairly assess the strategy as having been less effective this year than it usually is without blaming Ryan for it. He did the right thing, it just didn't work as well as it usually does.

    Also, Nick may want to brace for bizarre arguments that in terms of talent Nolasco = Garza. I still haven't wrapped my head around that.
    I agree completely. We probably would take a more cautous approach with Nolasco all over again, but you can't argue with the strategy. We could have ended up with nothing. I will take something at a higher price over nothing any day.

    I think Nolasco received a premuim for durability and/or Garza less due to injury concerns. Nolasco has pitched 390 innings the last two years and Garza pitched only 258, concerns over his elbow could not have helped.

    I think it is fair to say most people who criticize the Nolasco and Hughes signings and/or Terry's approach are the people that are impossible to please.

  19. #19
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    They agreed to terms with Nolasco on Nov 28 and with Hughes on Dec 5. That's just a tiny bit aggressive compared to the average peak offseason FA signing.



    ^ Taken from jay's blog post: http://twinsdaily.com/entry.php/4670...rting-Pitchers

    Its only the Tanaka/posting system drama and the lack of precedent for this FO that makes it appear more aggressive than it actually was.

    In any case, it was the right strategy IMO.

  20. #20
    It's a silly premise for an article.

    <Inflamatory Strawman Title?>
    No! Perfectly reasonable action in context, and no one is saying this at all. But if they were this piece would be refuting those arguments.

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