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Thread: Most over-rated player in the last 30 years to retire after 2014 season

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    I'll concede he was overrated with the glove, didn't deserve all his GG awards (who does, ever?) But, depending on the stat you want to look at, his defense cost him something like -10 WARs compared to almost +100 WARs with the bat. Dwarfed.

  2. #22
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm3319 View Post
    I know the play you're talking about it and popped into my head when thinking about overrated Jeter. He catches a foul ball, takes about 6 more full strides, then dives into the stands. And of course it made every highlight reel ever, when he could have caught it and just slowed down and stopped. Pretty much sums up my annoyance with Jeter. Good player, just too much media hype for me to stand him.
    You'll forgive me if I'm skeptical that a player, any player, could have stopped himself but chose to dive headfirst into cement and metal on purpose for the sake of getting on highlight reals.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  3. #23
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post
    I do not find it amazing as those idiots are pretty much correct.

    Sure, Jeter has been overated as a defender, but at his peak he was very capable.

    Jeter is a historical offensive powerhouse at his position. I believe Jeter to be more consistent and a bit better offensively than Ripken, Jr. and Ripken is a sign post in the modern history of baseball shortstops.

    I have spent the last 30 years of my life watching baseball. I may be no guru, but it is insulting to me to strip away the greatness that Jeter has cemented in the game of baseball.

    Since the Mid-Nineties, To me, he is the face of Major League Baseball.

    Nuff Said...
    I'll go so far as to say that for a long time he was a very good defensive shortstop, and I don't give a rat's behind what UZR says.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  5. #24
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    I just can't buy into Jeter being overrated. Overexposed? There's an argument for that. It happens with all great Yankees. I may get tired of hearing about it, but I'm not going to deny his greatness.

    Now here's what will be interesting to me: a non-trivial minority of hall of fame voters refused to vote for Craig Biggio due to PED suspicions. Their argument was one of guilt by association - Biggio had teammates who were known users, so he may have been using too. But isn't that just as true of Derek Jeter, especially as we learn more about A-Rod? Will these same voters leave Jeter off their ballots?

  6. #25
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Jeter has been a media favorite, and i think that a lot of people don't like that.
    Isn't that largely the vehicle for a player being overrated?

    My bone with Jeter has always been that the media fawns over him and created an image of a player that's better than he really is. As a contrast, Craig Biggio was a similar player (and MUCH better defensive player) and doesn't get even a fraction of the hype/love as Jeter did throughout his career.

  7. #26
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Isn't that largely the vehicle for a player being overrated?

    My bone with Jeter has always been that the media fawns over him and created an image of a player that's better than he really is. As a contrast, Craig Biggio was a similar player (and MUCH better defensive player) and doesn't get even a fraction of the hype/love as Jeter did throughout his career.
    As one_eyed_jack says above... "Overexposed" but not overrated.

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  9. #27
    Senior Member All-Star Bark's Lounge's Avatar
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    Baseball is weird sometimes. I believe Biggio should have been HOF on the first ballot. It looks like it will take 3 or 4 tries.

    Derek Jeter is better than Craig Biggio. If you do not believe that to be correct, you have never watched them play the game.

    Jeter will get 95% on his first ballot HOF vote... guaranteed.

  10. #28
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    As one_eyed_jack says above... "Overexposed" but not overrated.
    Distinction without a difference to me. The overexposure lead him to be overrated.

    I really don't care for the suggestion that seeing them play leaves no doubt. I saw Jeter and Biggio both play. They were extremely similar players, just one better with the bat and one significantly better with the glove. The stats back that up.

    Their quality of play isn't the difference. Their market and supporting talent were.

  11. #29
    Senior Member All-Star
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Isn't that largely the vehicle for a player being overrated?

    My bone with Jeter has always been that the media fawns over him and created an image of a player that's better than he really is. As a contrast, Craig Biggio was a similar player (and MUCH better defensive player) and doesn't get even a fraction of the hype/love as Jeter did throughout his career.
    I too believe Jeter is both a first ballot HOF and overrated. It sounds odd, but allow me to explain.

    A guy that hits .312, 3,200 hits, .820 OPS as a SS, and has five rings is a first ballot HOF.

    But the fact that he played in NY and alongside up to 10 guys that may end up in the hall of fame (which helped his ring count), he will get more credit at the end of the day. I am guessing he gets in with over 95% of the votes on his first try (which Bark's lounge estimated). Paul Molitor has almost identical stats accross the board, average, hits, HR, games, OPS, etc. Molitor has an additional 156 SB. Molitor achieved only 85% of the vote on his first ballot.

    I think Jeter will be viewed favorably or in the same category as Wagner and Banks and he was not on their level. If Tulo plays another 10 seasons, he will have much better stats on a per season basis.

  12. #30
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    I hate the Yankees, and I've disliked Jeter simply by association. So I'm pretty annoyed that this taunt of a thread makes me a Jeter apolgist. His defense was overrated but only in terms of Gold Glove kind of voting where the award really goes to the best SS who can hit. Everyone knew he was never the best defensive SS, it's not like the media gave him a pass on that just the rubes who vote for the biggest name.

    But defense? Who gives a crap about defense anymore especially in this day where most teams strive to strike out the batter as opposed to letting them put the ball in play?

    Offensively he was one of the top 3 SS ever. He had great players around him, but seeing as he was batting in front of them, providing a career .388 OBP and yearly double digit power from the top of the lineup, I'd be more inclined to say HE made the sluggers behind him look better.

  13. #31
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    He was kind of a throwback player to me - one position, one team, outstanding career.

    I got sick to death of the Yankees in the post-season all those years, and by association Jeter as well, but they did have a nice core of home grown guys that played their whole careers there, Williams, Posada, Rivera, Jeter.

    End of the day, it's hard to hate on guys of that caliber.

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  15. #32
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Paul Molitor has almost identical stats accross the board, average, hits, HR, games, OPS, etc. Molitor has an additional 156 SB. Molitor achieved only 85% of the vote on his first ballot.
    In fairness, Jeter played a more valuable defensive position to get those results since Molitor moved from 2B fairly early in his career.

    You're spot on about the rest. He's basically being given MLB Mt. Rushmore status and it isn't deserved. It's not that he wasn't a great player, it's that where he ranks among the greats has been vastly overstated. Especially when you look at him basically being a clone of Craig Biggio in all the stats, but getting exponentially more love/respect/adoration publicly.

  16. #33
    being your denagrating one of my two favorite players the other one is the clearly overrated wille mays. I should say that it is not Jeter's fault that he played in new york and that is cool to dislike the yankees. Do find it funny that on spirts list that Ozzie Smith's defence is rated higher that Jeter's offence. Second greatest shortstop of all time behind Luis Aparisco

  17. #34
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    I thought Mark DeRosa was already retired...

  18. #35
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    I too believe Jeter is both a first ballot HOF and overrated. It sounds odd, but allow me to explain.
    I don' think that's odd at all. Jeter was a fantastic player, probably the best of his generation at the position if you exclude A-Rod, whose non-steroid performances are still up for debate.

    But he's the best of his generation, not the best to ever play the position... Which is where the "overrated" part comes in.

  19. #36
    I think the Yankees' huge market, love/hate popularity, Jeter's own market saturation, and Fox's baseball coverage can be blamed most of the Jeter animosity (apologies if that isn't the right word). The cameras pan to him to see his reaction to seemingly every play over the course of the game. Joe Buck and Tim McCarver have praised and/or fantasized about him on air so much over the years that it's absolutely nauseating.

    In fact, I am still annoyed by it, but I simply cannot blame the player. I think a lot of people have a hard time separating the unasked for media attention from the player, and I really can understand where they are coming from.

    Hold no animosity toward the great player - just the media and their portrayal.

  20. #37
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    I forgot about Banks, yeah I would rank him over Jeter as well. Frankly, Jeter should have moved to 3rd base the second A-Rod was brought in. We can argue about roids all day long, but the fact is, A-Rod in his long prime is one of the best 10 players to ever play the game (And that is underating him a bit in my eyes), especially when you consider he was a pretty damn good SS as well. Ditto with Bonds, during that time I would imagine 33% of the league were on Roids, so personally, when we are talking all time great talents you HAVE to put A-Rod near the top.

    The Biggio and Larkin comparisons nail it on the head, if Jeter is a sure fire first ballot HOF (I bet he gets 95%) it is absolutely ludicrous that Biggio and Larkin failed to get 75% on their first chance.

    I think Jeter's hitting is a bit over-rated as well, he was surrounded by insane bats up and down that lineup, where Biggio, Ripken and Larkin never had that. FWIW Eloratings on baseball reference have Biggio at #56 all time, Larkin at #58 all time. Jeter is #113 all time.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  21. #38
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozziedavisfan View Post
    being your denagrating one of my two favorite players the other one is the clearly overrated wille mays. I should say that it is not Jeter's fault that he played in new york and that is cool to dislike the yankees. Do find it funny that on spirts list that Ozzie Smith's defence is rated higher that Jeter's offence. Second greatest shortstop of all time behind Luis Aparisco
    Willie Mays is one of the best five players to ever play the game, Jeter is not (though half the people in this city will tell you up and down he is the best yankee to play the game and one of the best 10 in baseball history)
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  22. #39
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge View Post

    Jeter will get 95% on his first ballot HOF vote... guaranteed.
    Using hall of fame voters to support your argument actually hurts it I believe, if we have learned anything over the years, there are a lot of really ignorant and dumb hall of fame voters (See: Biggio not getting in first ballot, Bagwell not getting in, Edgar Martinez not even sniffing the line, Bonds being shut out, Clemens being shut out etc)

    Biggio and Jeter are actually pretty similar players IMO. Overall I think he is a better hitter, and in his 15 year prime I think he was significantly better due to ballpark/supporting cast. Defensively, I like Biggio more, I think Jeter gets points for being SS (instead of 2B) but Biggio was pretty verstatile as well (playing catcher and CF as well)

    To say that anyone who thinks Biggio is better then Jeter "has never watched them play the game" I think is a bit inflammatory. I think a valid argument could be made (and has been made) for either Jeter or Biggio
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  23. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    Willie Mays is one of the best five players to ever play the game, Jeter is not (though half the people in this city will tell you up and down he is the best yankee to play the game and one of the best 10 in baseball history)
    Which city?! Perhaps it's just because I haven't watched SportsCenter in about five years but I have a hard time believing people are saying Jeter is better than Ruth, Gerhig or Mantle unless you're polling teenage girls.

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