02-19-2014, 08:29 PM #101
02-19-2014, 08:33 PM #102
02-19-2014, 08:42 PM #103
On Drew, a 29-year-old shortstop who missed the second half of the 2011 season with a severe ankle injury and has not played this season, Kendrick said: “I’m going to be real direct about Stephen. I think Stephen should have been out there playing before now, frankly. I, for one, am disappointed. I’m going to be real candid and say Stephen and his representatives are more focused on where Stephen is going to be a year from now than on going out and supporting the team that’s paying his salary. All you can do is hope that the player is treating the situation with integrity. Frankly, we have our concerns.
This doesn't mean anything... You never know if the context is correct. The owner could have been pissed off because his wife yelled at him in the morning or his lawnmower didn't start or something before he threw Drew under the bus. The owner could be a complete idiot... I don't know.
But the above quote and the giving him to Oakland for nothing while not having a decent SS to replace him and the outrageous price of SS's is enough to give me pause.A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".
02-19-2014, 08:43 PM #104
02-19-2014, 08:47 PM #105
And be suspicious all you want, I don't accept the decline phase theory, because a less athletic-to-start SS who doesn't rely on sheer athleticism just isn't going to decline as much. But even accepting the shaky premise based mostly on opinion, there's no evidence that's been presented (except the weaker numbers against LHP) that suggests he's lost it-
he still posted a vastly superior ballpark-adjusted OPS+,
made the plays on everything in front of him,
and even allowing for a marked drop-off from 2013 would still represent vastly superior production over Florimon, who probably won't be around himself for very much longer.
2 years with Drew does nothing crippling to the team- on the field or reflected in the payroll- even if the projected worse happens- it's still better than Florimon.
02-19-2014, 08:54 PM #106
Just for the record... There is something I like about Drew. Triples... He hits a lot of triples and triples to me are an indicator of aggressiveness and I like aggressiveness so I dont hate him.
This has been an interesting discussion... Good job on both sides to all.A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".
02-19-2014, 08:54 PM #107
Florimon is a vastly superior defender, I'm ok with his terrible bat for now as long as the glove is there. I don't feel a pressing need to add decline phase players for draft picks right now.
02-19-2014, 08:55 PM #108
I would be all for putting incentive clauses into a Drew 2-year contract as protection for the Twins- and as a reward to Drew for meeting them.
Last edited by jokin; 02-20-2014 at 01:04 AM.
02-19-2014, 09:03 PM #109
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Drew would be the Twins best lead off hitter since Carew!
02-19-2014, 09:04 PM #110
I won't make any definitive claims myself... I will only say it gives me pause. But attitude aside... Offensively... His stats don't match up with the price tag... They match up with position scarcity.A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".
02-19-2014, 09:33 PM #111
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Well its not the Twins, Gardy made that clear. Bullet dodged.
02-19-2014, 11:46 PM #112
D-Backs net SS production in 2013: .682 OPS/95 OPS+
Drew in 2013: .777 OPS/111 OPS+
League Average: .675OPS/91 OPS+
Regarding position scarcity, Mauer used to fall under the same equation. The Twins desperately need to upgrade their offense- which on paper right now- looks to be worse than last years' anemic output, SS is one of 2 or 3 obvious positions where they still can do so without interfering with the long-term plan.
Regarding your objection to the price tag, we do have WAR as an approximate measure of value. Drew's 3.2 bWAR and 3.4 fWAR would suggest that, he was worth $17-$20M in 2013. Even with a drop-off in 2014 and 2015, it appears likely that he would comfortably still "earn" his $10M/yr based on WAR measurements.
Last edited by jokin; 02-20-2014 at 12:44 AM.
02-20-2014, 12:59 AM #113
02-20-2014, 07:18 AM #114
Most of the other 29 teams aren't in the Twins position...they don't have a pressing need at SS and/or they would be surrendering a first round pick, not a second.
And for the record, "Florimon is a vastly superior defender" is an opinion, not a fact, and an opinion based on little evidence at that.
And finally, "decline phase player" is the sort of phrase that drives me crazy. Players are individuals, not fruit on the grocery store shelf. They don't all age along the same curve, and there is no research that can predict otherwise accurately.Every post is not every other post. - a wise man
This user likes USAFChief's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:
02-20-2014, 08:02 AM #115
Since then, the best season for a lead-off hitter was Span had an OBP of .393 in 2009.
Drew hasn't had an OBP above .333 since 2010."If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."
02-20-2014, 08:04 AM #116
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02-20-2014, 08:05 AM #117"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."
02-20-2014, 08:16 AM #118
Justin Upton does not equal the value of Elvis Andrus or Jurickson Profar. With Drew you are paying big money because he is a SS. Not because he has consistently produced awesome numbers.
As for D-Backs owner Ken Kendrick and if he's a bonehead. I've never met him. I wasn't in the room when he got frustrated with Stephen Drew. I don't know if he made assumptions or Drew said to him.... Screw You... I'm not risking my contract with someone next year or whatever. We don't know if it was Boras and Drew disagreeing with Team Doctors or Kendrick not listening to team doctors. I don't know.
I'm not comfortable designating anyone as a bonehead without 1st hand knowledge of them.
Owners... Typically have some ability. They were able to make enough money to buy the club and that isn't easy to do if you are a bonehead. In a lot of cases... They are able to accumulate a lot of money because they don't give away assets.
Actions speak louder than words... Drew was given away. The A's gave the D-Backs nothing for him. It was compounded because it cost the D-Backs Trevor Bauer to replace him. You could say... Indirectly... The D-Backs gave away Bauer to get rid of Drew.
It was just 2012... It wasn't that long ago. A decent 2013 with a winning team Boston doesn't say... I'm back... Ta-Dah!!!
In 2012... Not along ago... The D-Backs gave him away... They hated him that much... It would have to be assumed that they tried to trade him to more teams than the A's.
No team could beat the A's package of Sean Jamieson... a 17th round pick who was hitting .234 at Low A.
Now consider position scarcity and the price of Gregorious and Andrus and I assume without proof that Drew was unwanted in 2012 by everyone and 2012 wasn't that long ago.
Its going to give me pause. You won't be able to convince me to jump in first feet. I must pause.A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".
02-20-2014, 08:38 AM #119
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02-20-2014, 08:40 AM #120
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Consider a few things.
Forbes pegged this team at a profit of $10M last year. This year our payroll remains the same while revenue is up nearly $40M. So this team should make $50M next year.
The value of the Twins, pre-stadium (mostly publicly funded) was $214M. Last year, Forbes calculated the value at $560M. Bloomberg has the value now at $700M, with the increase related to the new media deal (added $110M to each franchise). So this team is up nearly half a billion dollars, or 250% in the span of 6-7 years.
By any measure, our fans are some of the best in the game. We have gone out to the games to watch horrible baseball for 3 years in a row.
Would it be the end of the world to throw us a bone with Drew and/or Cruz/Morales? Would that be asking too much? We would not hamper our future and this team would still be well in the green next year.
We should not have to watch Florimon at SS or sit here and try and justify the signing. This is a conversation that should have happened at Target field in October and it should have been a relatively simple one.