Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 197

Thread: Matt Capps, Bill Smith and the trade that ruined Twins baseball

  1. #81
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,693
    Like
    32
    Liked 772 Times in 423 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    Further seasons have seen payroll continue to drop until [what has been stated as a"comfortable" range] of $80-85MM. Circumstantial evidence is generally considered to be the best type of evidence.
    If the Twins are holding fast at an $80m payroll indefinitely, explain the Matt Garza offer.

  2. #82
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    123
    Like
    0
    Liked 14 Times in 9 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    If the Twins are holding fast at an $80m payroll indefinitely, explain the Matt Garza offer.
    When was the money offered to Garza? Do we have proof that it was before Hughes, Nolasco, and Pelfrey signed? Maybe it is an old report and after he rejected it we moved on to sign the guys we signed.

  3. #83
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,693
    Like
    32
    Liked 772 Times in 423 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by jharaldson View Post
    When was the money offered to Garza? Do we have proof that it was before Hughes, Nolasco, and Pelfrey signed? Maybe it is an old report and after he rejected it we moved on to sign the guys we signed.
    I'd have to dig up the article but it was offered right around the time of TwinsFest, well after the Twins had signed Pelfrey, Hughes, and Nolasco.

    The article was also referenced in the latest GatG episode.

  4. #84
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,141
    Like
    3
    Liked 179 Times in 106 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    If the Twins are holding fast at an $80m payroll indefinitely, explain the Matt Garza offer.
    Playing devil's advocate for the original poster, the Garza offer could have been followed by a trade of Correia, Burton, Willingham, etc., which would have mostly neutral payroll implications. We really don't know much about its context.

    I am encouraged by the Garza offer, but it's a pretty small data point so far for the trend we all want to see -- more investment in the big-league roster.

  5. #85

  6. #86
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,693
    Like
    32
    Liked 772 Times in 423 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    Playing devil's advocate for the original poster, the Garza offer could have been followed by a trade of Correia, Burton, Willingham, etc., which would have mostly neutral payroll implications. We really don't know much about its context.

    I am encouraged by the Garza offer, but it's a pretty small data point so far for the trend we all want to see -- more investment in the big-league roster.
    Which is fine to want to see more spending... But the Twins payroll isn't necessarily at $80m because the Pohlads have demanded that to be the case.

    The Twins couldn't make up Garza's salary through trades. Correia could be traded, sure. Burton, probably, but he's not making much. But nobody is taking Willingham at this point, not for $7m.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    123
    Like
    0
    Liked 14 Times in 9 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I'd have to dig up the article but it was offered right around the time of TwinsFest, well after the Twins had signed Pelfrey, Hughes, and Nolasco.

    The article was also referenced in the latest GatG episode.
    http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/20...er-from-twins/

    There are no specifics given to when the offer was given to Garza. Conversely, Angels sources and Garza are more forthcoming on their offer to him stating it was in in mid-december, about 6 weeks before he signed with the Brewers:

    http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/2014/...im-to-brewers/

    I think it is highly unlikely the Twins made this offer after they had signed Pelfrey, Nolasco, and Hughes. In my opinion it was at least before the Pelfrey signing and I would suspect it was in the November timeframe when they were working on Nolasco. I can't imagine they would clog up 4/5's of their rotation for the next 3 years and prevent any spots from being filled by our minor league guys.

    I will state that proof for either side on this issue is impossible because we have no definitive quotes.

  8. #88
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,141
    Like
    3
    Liked 179 Times in 106 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Which is fine to want to see more spending... But the Twins payroll isn't necessarily at $80m because the Pohlads have demanded that to be the case.

    The Twins couldn't make up Garza's salary through trades. Correia could be traded, sure. Burton, probably, but he's not making much. But nobody is taking Willingham at this point, not for $7m.
    I didn't necessarily mean dollar-to-dollar, but they could have offset a good portion of Garza's 2014 salary and stayed in the same payroll range. And adjusted 2015+ decisions to match. We just don't know.

  9. #89
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    4,609
    Like
    512
    Liked 214 Times in 147 Posts
    All we know for sure, is they got $25MM more in revenue, and the payroll is up around $2MM, a payroll that was (and remains) well below 52% of revenue. Why that is happening, we can only speculate on that.
    Lighten up Francis....

  10. This user likes mike wants wins's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    johnnydakota (02-26-2014)

  11. #90
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,141
    Like
    3
    Liked 179 Times in 106 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by jharaldson View Post
    http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/20...er-from-twins/

    There are no specifics given to when the offer was given to Garza
    There is the line: A second person with knowledge of the Garza talks confirmed the Twins were ďin on Garza until the last day.Ē

    That suggests the offer (or some offer) was on the table pretty late.

  12. #91
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,148
    Like
    62
    Liked 74 Times in 50 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    If the Twins are holding fast at an $80m payroll indefinitely, explain the Matt Garza offer.
    Sure--once somebody accepts an offer, they can withdraw an offer to someone else.

  13. #92
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
    Posts
    3,797
    Like
    26
    Liked 320 Times in 190 Posts
    Blog Entries
    198
    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy10 View Post
    How can any MLB team reduce their payroll by $12MM and expect to compete? This kind of non-spending by ownership puts the burden squarely on ownership, not management. What other MLB team is conducting itself in like manner? Please advise.
    Depends on how the $12M is being spent... In 2013 the Twins paid:

    $15 Million to Morneau
    $5.5 Million to Blackburn
    $3.75 Million to Carroll
    $3.5 Million to Doumit
    $.65 Million to Butera

    That's about $29 Million. Not spent that well/effectively.
    -----
    Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
    http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/
    twitter: @thrylos98

  14. This user likes Thrylos's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    birdwatcher (02-26-2014)

  15. #93
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    213
    Like
    0
    Liked 33 Times in 25 Posts
    Well then let's speculate that ownership would rather pocket the differential between revenue and payroll than spend it on ballplayers. How else can one label it?

  16. #94
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    882
    Like
    109
    Liked 131 Times in 60 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    This. Everybody gets a little blame for this mess. Ryan for not continuing to build a better than average MiLB system through the mid 2000s, Smith for trading away the assets Ryan did draft or acquire (Bartlett, Garza, Ramos).

    How different is 2011-2013 if those three players are on the roster? Smith inherited a bad situation and proceeded to light the damned building on fire instead of improving the situation.
    Honestly our team would still have been miserable if we had Garza, Bartlett, and Ramos those seasons. Bartlett was terrible his last season and out of baseball last year. Ramos would have been a back up catcher and Garza is not nearly enough to make up for the ineptness of 4/5 of the roster. I'd say we maybe get up to 74 wins once. The thing that kills us is that we didn't have Garza and Bartlett when we (and they) were actually good.

  17. #95
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,693
    Like
    32
    Liked 772 Times in 423 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    Sure--once somebody accepts an offer, they can withdraw an offer to someone else.
    Except that all evidence suggests they were in on Garza until he signed with the Brewers, or at least until January.

  18. #96
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,148
    Like
    62
    Liked 74 Times in 50 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Except that all evidence suggests they were in on Garza until he signed with the Brewers, or at least until January.
    What evidence? The Twins said they made an offer to Garza. Few if any details--and nothing about the back-and-forth discussions, like what Garza requested--dates weren't given. My point--said they were "comfortable with $80-85MM" last year maybe they would be comfortable with more this year. But the coincidence of nearly identical payroll from year to year is illuminating especially in light of the previous statement.

  19. #97
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    772
    Like
    344
    Liked 64 Times in 47 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy10 View Post
    Well then let's speculate that ownership would rather pocket the differential between revenue and payroll than spend it on ballplayers. How else can one label it?
    Easy as pie, oldguy. I speculate that Jim Pohlad told us he's in favor of spending more to improve the team. I'm speculating that, just like he said he did, he's encouraged his front office to spend money if that's what it takes. And I'm speculating that Ryan has cautioned him to remain patient, that he'll spend Jimmy's money when he has the right opportunities and not before, and to just simmer down a bit and let things play out. I mean, how else can one label it?

  20. This user likes birdwatcher's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    Riverbrian (02-26-2014)

  21. #98
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    772
    Like
    344
    Liked 64 Times in 47 Posts
    Exactly what does the timing of the Garza offer prove to you?

  22. #99
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,693
    Like
    32
    Liked 772 Times in 423 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    What evidence? The Twins said they made an offer to Garza. Few if any details--and nothing about the back-and-forth discussions, like what Garza requested--dates weren't given. My point--said they were "comfortable with $80-85MM" last year maybe they would be comfortable with more this year. But the coincidence of nearly identical payroll from year to year is illuminating especially in light of the previous statement.
    Two different articles quoting inside Twins sources, one mentioning the period around TwinsFest, another saying the Twins were in on Garza until the day he signed with the Brewers.

  23. #100
    Pixel Monkey MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    6,693
    Like
    32
    Liked 772 Times in 423 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by birdwatcher View Post
    Exactly what does the timing of the Garza offer prove to you?
    That the Twins are willing to spend more money if the right player is available, which renders the $80m payroll ceiling a figment of fans' imaginations.

  24. This user likes Brock Beauchamp's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    Riverbrian (02-26-2014)

Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.