Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 45

Thread: Article: The Trouble With Counting on Kubel

  1. #21
    As I said in another thread. Once Sano is here (June??) We have 5 guys for 3 spots (LF, RF,DH)--Arcia, Willingham, Parmalee, Kubel, Plouffe. Hopefully, Parmalee gets a chance to see if that Sept. a couple of years ago was a fluke. Arcia has to play everyday. If we platoon Plouffe and Kubel where does that leave Willingham?? I wonder if Kubel is just insurance against Parmalee or in Rochester until we trade Willingham for what little he is worth.

  2. #22
    Twins News Team MVP
    Posts
    6,759
    Like
    882
    Liked 858 Times in 553 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwak View Post
    It's difficult to conceive that Gardenhire wouldn't make demands [to the effect] of having better players to manage if he is to be held responsible for the Twins' W/L record as a condition of signing a new contract. With respect to the "public apology" it seems that the addition of sooo many veteran players was to provide those "better players". "Meaningless ABs" is a vague term. No, Doumit wasn't signed to be a building block--he was signed to "win now" (at least as much as practicable--like 70+ games). Gardenhire is not, and never was to be the sort of manager to "build a team"--his job was always to "win now". So, if Doumit was played--it was to "win now". It is/was someone else's responsibility to develop the players. The extended minor league service time of most Twins-developed players indicates just that. The Twins do not use the philosophy of pushing prospects to the majors, get them 3 years or so experience, and then sign them long-term--or trade them before they get expensive.
    All of which begs the question: Why is Gardy still at the helm of a clearly rebuiling team, and a team that seems fully intent for the next 2 years on the continuation of the practice of NOT "Winning Now"?

  3. #23
    look for kubel to be used in a similar fashion as j thome. his demeanor in the club house and batting cage could be his most positive attribute this year. a veteran lefty off the pine.

  4. #24
    Banned All-Star
    Posts
    1,498
    Like
    419
    Liked 75 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    I love that they signed Kubel, and got him on a minor league deal. I think he's a given to make the roster, but it's not guaranteed. He's only 31, and in 2012, he launched 30 homers. Last year he was hurt. Don't get me wrong. He's not a given, and they have lots of other options if he doesn't pan out, but this is the kind of signing the Twins should (and all teams should) be excited about.
    Lots of options? Parmelee? Kenny Vargas? Chris Colabello?

  5. #25
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Physics Guy's Avatar
    Posts
    610
    Like
    20
    Liked 43 Times in 32 Posts
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by jharaldson View Post
    Kubel had a .610 OPS, that 100 points lower and not what I would call close. Even in Kubel's limited time last year he was worth almost 2 less wins then Doumit so I view this as a clear step down.
    The year before Kubel was 50 points higher, when Doumit had a pretty good year. He also has a higher career OPS than Doumit and is a year younger. He's a better OF than Doumit, but then we really don't want him out there very much either. Signing Kubel was a cheap gamble with a potentially nice payout as a 350-400 AB DH against RHP.

  6. This user likes Physics Guy's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    USAFChief (03-25-2014)

  7. #26
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
    Posts
    2,783
    Like
    666
    Liked 384 Times in 214 Posts
    Blog Entries
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by jharaldson View Post
    What was Kubel's injury last year. I googled "Kubel 2013 Injury" and all I found was a strained quad. Was there something serious that I did not find? I have a hard time thinking a muscle pull in April could really be an excuse for the season he had.

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/...?q=jason-kubel
    Full injury history here, if you have an hour to kill
    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ca...d.php?id=31757

    Last year it was

    First, his left knee started bothering him in spring training. Then it was his quad in April. That went away but then returned. And then the knee flared up again.
    “I think what really might have (hurt) was that I got into a lot of bad habits in the spring because of my knee,” Kubel said, “so I was swinging different. And then in the last month or so I’ve been working on it pretty hard and finally got back to using the legs, and I think that kind of flared it up again.”
    http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diam...ls-output.html

  8. #27
    Sample size of one at bat: Kubel just struck out, facing a right hander, swinging at a wild pitch.

    I'm posting just to tease, I hope all the best for Kubel. And nowhere to go but up from his first AB of spring training!

  9. This user likes deanlambrecht's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    snepp (02-28-2014)

  10. #28
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    423
    Like
    70
    Liked 72 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    All of which begs the question: Why is Gardy still at the helm of a clearly rebuiling team, and a team that seems fully intent for the next 2 years on the continuation of the practice of NOT "Winning Now"?
    They have to be setting the "new" team up with a new manager after Gardy's last two years. They must not have wanted these two years on the new managers record. Because they are totally setting Gardy up to fail with what he has to work with. Even if the new guys perform pretty well in 2015 that is going to be an up and down year. After it becomes 5 losing seasons I think it might be the end of both Gardy and Terry, but hopefully the rebuild will be done and the Team on the rise for many seasons.

  11. #29
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,999
    Like
    104
    Liked 392 Times in 206 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    This year should be about finding out what the youth can do, since they punted fixing the offense at all.....and aren't likely to compete. I don't get how using Kubel helps that at all. It's hard to execute your strategy, if you don't execute your strategy.
    I would understand this point if the guy the Twins signed was 35+, however Kubel is still only 31 and only one season removed from a .833 OPS and 30 HR. IF (and it certainly is an IF) he can stay healthy, he could be an asset for this team not only in 2014, but possibly moving forward in the future as well, he clearly enjoys playing in Minnesota, so if he can bounce back this year, he could be a nice affordable part time DH part time bench bat moving forward. If Parmelee lights the world on fire, then yeah, Kubel becomes redundant, but if he bounces back like he can, then he becomes a nice player to have on your team, especially as a part time player/bench bat.

    Again he is only 31, there is no reason why he can't be effective another couple seasons at a very cost effective rate.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  12. #30
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,999
    Like
    104
    Liked 392 Times in 206 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dman View Post
    They have to be setting the "new" team up with a new manager after Gardy's last two years. They must not have wanted these two years on the new managers record. Because they are totally setting Gardy up to fail with what he has to work with. Even if the new guys perform pretty well in 2015 that is going to be an up and down year. After it becomes 5 losing seasons I think it might be the end of both Gardy and Terry, but hopefully the rebuild will be done and the Team on the rise for many seasons.
    I dunno, I could see this being the case if they completely fall on their face again this year and don't show improvement, however I think the Twins manage to win at least 72-74 games this year because of the improved rotation alone. If they do that, and get to .500/above .500 in 2015 (very capable) then you certainly can keep him around.

    Yeah, Gardy isn't perfect, but the guy has had success in this league, his players like playing for him, he is likable and knows baseball. I wish him nothing but success.
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  13. #31
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    286
    Like
    0
    Liked 25 Times in 18 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DAM DC Twins Fans View Post
    As I said in another thread. Once Sano is here (June??) We have 5 guys for 3 spots (LF, RF,DH)--Arcia, Willingham, Parmalee, Kubel, Plouffe. Hopefully, Parmalee gets a chance to see if that Sept. a couple of years ago was a fluke. Arcia has to play everyday. If we platoon Plouffe and Kubel where does that leave Willingham?? I wonder if Kubel is just insurance against Parmalee or in Rochester until we trade Willingham for what little he is worth.
    I guess in my vision if Kubel, Arcia, Plouffe and Sano are all on the team then Parmalee would not be. Not giving up on Parmalee but he has had two years to prove 2011 was not a fluke. Its just that the splits of Kubel and Plouffe scream platoon.

  14. #32
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    160
    Like
    1
    Liked 25 Times in 16 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Thanks for the good info! This is a little more detailed then the stuff I found at Fox but it is still effectively the same thing. 1 stint on the disabled list for a quad strain. A couple of Day to Day outages with knee and back soreness. The Arizona Central article had an interesting quote describing the injuries

    But he’s never had a year like this season, one in which the nagging injuries have hurt his production so significantly.
    “His knee has been a problem all year,” manager Kirk Gibson said. “Does it affect his hitting? It could. I don’t know, but during the season you’ve got to deal with it.
    I agree with the premise Nick had in this article, I don't think we can count on him much if such minor stuff really changed his game that much.

  15. #33
    Senior Member All-Star SpiritofVodkaDave's Avatar
    Posts
    3,999
    Like
    104
    Liked 392 Times in 206 Posts
    A knee injury is rarely ever "minor", continuing to play with a nagging injury on the knee is absolutely a recipe for disaster, more so when you HAVE to play the field every day in the National League.

    Kirk Gibson of all people should realize this....
    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"- L. Harvey Oswald


  16. #34
    oops. Kubels troubles did not start in 2013. They started at the end of July of 2012. He has been brutal since then. Check his production starting in August of 2012.

  17. #35
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
    Posts
    4,178
    Twitter
    @thrylos98
    Like
    36
    Liked 446 Times in 273 Posts
    Blog Entries
    200
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    A knee injury is rarely ever "minor", continuing to play with a nagging injury on the knee is absolutely a recipe for disaster, more so when you HAVE to play the field every day in the National League.
    Yeah. Especially after that initial knee injury that practically got his knee into pieces. For the ones who do not remember, he tore both the ACL and PCL, and the LCL and his meniscus (for good measure.) That was a horrible injury and one can never completely heal from that, so any sort of knee situation is troublesome...
    -----
    Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
    http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/
    twitter: @thrylos98

  18. #36
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
    Posts
    470
    Like
    220
    Liked 174 Times in 99 Posts
    Blog Entries
    10
    Always been a big fan of Kubel, even if he never quite became the OF hoped for before his knee injury, and never quite became the complete hitter we had hoped for. But he was very solid and productive for us overall in his career here. Disappointed when he and Cuddy were allowed to walk.

    I worry the Kubel's knee is "older" than the 31 y.o. rest of his body, and also worried about increasing SO totals growing each season and a worse half to his 2012 season that continued in to and through last season. But I felt at the time, and still do, that even if his signing turns out to be a release/retirement "thanks for the memories" transaction, it is/was a good flyer. Guys one year removed from a good season and signed on the cheap are a smart investment.

    My only concern is, does Kubel make the club out of ST based on memories and past performance if he doesn't show clear hitting and production in Florida? The best team the Twins can put together offensively AND defensively is for Molitor to assist Willingham to transition in to a mostly full time DH role with Hicks in center, hopefully, and Presley in LF. And I repeat that a healthy and productive Willingham at DH, who could play the OF once in a while, is what could bring potential trade value. Nobody is going to trade for a 35 y.o. Willingam saying: "oh look, he's better than we thought in the OF suddenly because the Twins are marching him out there every day."

    How many AB's are truly available for Kubes then? What if last season and 3 strikeouts in today's first game is more the norm? Does this prevent another opportunity for Parmelee?
    I don't have a lot of illusions about Parm at this point. But he's quite a bit younger, better in the OF, can fill in at 1B and could yet have the lightbulb go on. I still feel the Twins made a mistake by not standing by him last season with consistent enough AB's.

    I guess that's where Kubel scares me overall, not really showing anything, truly being done, but taking a roster spot based solely on the past.

  19. #37
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    423
    Like
    70
    Liked 72 Times in 49 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave View Post
    I dunno, I could see this being the case if they completely fall on their face again this year and don't show improvement, however I think the Twins manage to win at least 72-74 games this year because of the improved rotation alone. If they do that, and get to .500/above .500 in 2015 (very capable) then you certainly can keep him around.

    Yeah, Gardy isn't perfect, but the guy has had success in this league, his players like playing for him, he is likable and knows baseball. I wish him nothing but success.
    I hope you are right. I have never heard a player say anything negative about Gardy and it seems we hear every other day that the players that have played for the Twins want to stay with the Twins so he must be doing something right.

  20. #38
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,530
    Like
    79
    Liked 173 Times in 107 Posts
    Blog Entries
    31
    Parmelee has yet to get consistent playing time. At this point, he should have over 1000 plate appearances. That hasn't happened because of options like Doumit and now Kubel.

    If the Twins are certain he will not be a useful major league player, they were wise not to invest the at bats. If that is the case, why is he still around? I am certain Kubel will not be part of the next successful run. I am certain Paremelee won't either without the consistent opportunity. If Kubel is on the roster out of spring training, they may as well DFA Parmelee. There won't be enough at bats for him to develop.

    Ninety loss teams should be looking to get younger. They should be looking to find pieces for the next successful run. Signing decline phase players in attempt to be mediocre just stalls the return. The Twins don't even do that well. They would have to improve to be mediocre.

    Dave Fleming wrote an article projecting surprise teams for 2014. The Twins didn't do well. The first two listed factors were 2013 batter age and pitcher age. The Twins had their second oldest roster in the last 15 years in 2013.

    http://www.billjamesonline.com/which...urce=pulsenews

    Let's hope they fare better on this list next spring. They can choose to invest consistent playing time in Parmelee, Arcia, Gibson, Meyer, Worley, Pinto, Tonkin, Hicks or Escobar or they can choose to give it to Kubel, Suzuki, Bartlett, Pelfrey, Correia, Willingham and Guerrier.

  21. This user likes jorgenswest's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    mike wants wins (03-25-2014)

  22. #39
    This roster will be in flux for the first 2 months of the season anyway. So I am ok with giving Kubel a shot. Especially if Gardy would change his philosophy on platooning. A DH of Kubel/Colabello-Pinto looks like it could work. Lots of mixing and matching ahead for Gardy. But by June is will sort it's self out and we will know if Kubel is a CBPOY candidate or done.

  23. This user likes Rick Niedermann's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    benchwarmerjim (03-25-2014)

  24. #40
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
    Posts
    6,608
    Like
    3,682
    Liked 3,170 Times in 1,357 Posts
    I'll repeat myself...it wouldn't surprise me if Kubel is the 2nd or 3rd best hitter on this team.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.