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Thread: Chris "Parmalee" ... and other comments on spelling and gramma

  1. #21
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    The problem with Parmelee is very specific. I know it's an "e" and not an "a" but for whatever reason (how his name is pronounced is my guess) - it's super hard to spell his name correctly all the time. I slip into what I think it should be rather than what it is.

    I don't think it's intentional, just somewhere along the way his family decided to spell and say their name in a completely confusing way.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Brad Swanson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    100% agree... It's totally a respect thing.
    I agree with Seth Stows, if you aren't sure, just consult Google.
    Works on contingency? No, money down!
    Kevin Slowey was Framed!

  3. #23
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiee of the Year View Post
    That would be the Rays...
    -----
    Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
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    twitter: @thrylos98

  4. #24
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    While I agree that it would be nice if we would all spell players' names correctly, I'm vastly more concerned about the substantial number of posters on the internet who do not know the difference between common English words like "lose" and "loose".
    or to and too or resign and re-sign
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  6. #25
    Senior Member Double-A
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    You wouldn't want to start a MELEE over this - would you? Then again that m ay be PAR for the course.

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  8. #26
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottz View Post
    I have a hard time believing I bothered to log in specifically to respond to this thread, but...

    Laziness? For getting to/too/two wrong? Or you're/your? I'm all in favor of excellent writing, but lazy? How about poorly constructed sentences like that last one of mine? Now that is what I call lazy. I recognized it was a poorly crafted sentence, and yet, I chose to let it exist as originally written. It sits there, an ugly and incomplete painting of a half-finished turtle sitting on a log in the middle of a pond. The pond represents all literary devices and the turtle represents my metaphor. The log has two purposes. First, it is simply a log. Most likely, it is a birch. Second, it represents the hopes and dreams of everyone who ever wrote a sentence; their collective wish only to convey meaning without concern for grammatical accuracy. Anyway, to me, that seems to be lazy. Does it to you, too?

    All I know is if we can get all this stuff figured out, I will enjoy the Minnesota Twins more than ever.
    Yeah, I believe the refusal/inability to learn and use the correct forms of common words is pretty lazy.

    I don't expect people to know the correct spelling of onomatopoeia every time but the correct use of "you're" shouldn't be too lofty a request. It's third grade English.

  9. #27
    Senior Member All-Star
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    Not to be confused with a mle.
    The most under appreciated manager in Twins history?

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  11. #28
    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Swanson View Post
    I agree with Seth Stows, if you aren't sure, just consult Google.
    I see what you did there.

  12. #29
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Yeah, I believe the refusal/inability to learn and use the correct forms of common words is pretty lazy.

    I don't expect people to know the correct spelling of onomatopoeia every time but the correct use of "you're" shouldn't be too lofty a request. It's third grade English.
    Laziness isn't the right word, maybe arrogance, maybe stubbornness, maybe refusal to assess one's weakness.

    People's minds work differently. And your priorities need not be everyone else's. For my part, I have to check and recheck my own sentences because my mind moves faster than my fingers do, so I make both typos and transplant common homonyms--one of my writing mentors thought I was dyslexic--I'm not sure that's the case, rather that my mind sees what it wants to see; it corrects the mistakes and fills in the blanks, so I don't readily see them. I have to work harder than I imagine others do to make my grammar polished; that I sometimes don't catch mistakes, doesn't make me lazy nor necessarily careless. Plenty of people express lazy thoughts in perfectly polished prose. Others' grammar might be polished but they lack precision with their vocabulary. Etc. There's a lot to get worked up about when people express themselves through imperfect language guided by imperfect rules.

    The point is that your pet peeve--is just that--yours, and is not necessarily indicative of someone's character.

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  14. #30
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Laziness isn't the right word, maybe arrogance, maybe stubbornness, maybe refusal to assess one's weakness....
    The point is that your pet peeve--is just that--yours, and is not necessarily indicative of someone's character.
    Arrogance pertains to character. So does stubbornness, or refusal to assess one's weaknesses. Why is laziness a special hot button word?

  15. #31
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Arrogance pertains to character. So does stubbornness, or refusal to assess one's weaknesses. Why is laziness a special hot button word?
    There's a certain blindness in the other flaws I mention. Laziness seems an inadequate, and rather self-serving, explanation. "It's because I work so hard that my grammar is polished." Well, it might just be easier for you, because your brain latches onto details and is hardwired for rules. That my brain deprioritizes the cosmetics of prose for other factors, doesn't make me lazy, it makes me different.

    I still don't think that grammar or cosmetics in general matter all that much in actual communication of ideas--though it certainly can some times. And it is out of social graciousness that I make an effort to write with polish, not that I actually think it's so important.

    For instance there's this paragraph:
    "Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteers be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe."

    I would suggest lee-way in allowing others to show their deftness where they are most strong suited--and see our priorities as just our own singular set of priorities (perhaps shared culturally, academically, etc., but still likely our own), and not a some biblical standard with which everyone should abide.

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  17. #32
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    And it is out of social graciousness that I make an effort to write with polish, not that I actually think it's so important.
    And this is the difference between being lazy and not when it comes to 'polishing' one's grammar. You are correct that most of us can still understand the point another is making, regardless of the typos, misspellings and grammatical errors; but it really only takes a minute or two to read through one's post to make the simplest corrections before hitting 'post.' For me, having to read through another poster's typos and 'misplaced' grammar and 'switched homonyms' tends to give their points a little less credibility.

  18. #33
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    And this is the difference between being lazy and not when it comes to 'polishing' one's grammar. You are correct that most of us can still understand the point another is making, regardless of the typos, misspellings and grammatical errors; but it really only takes a minute or two to read through one's post to make the simplest corrections. For me, having to read through another poster's typos and 'misplaced' grammar and 'switched homonyms' tends to give their points a little less credibility.
    For you it takes a minute or two. For me, I keep working on precision, and find new ways to express my ideas when I read through my prose. I have to willfully stop trying to communicate, and concentrate on cosmetics, because other people think I should--not because it has actual intrinsic value. It is a concession of my priorities that I make (something that goes far beyond what others would call my former laziness). It's taken me years of effort and thousand of pages of writing to get my brain and my habits to abide by such. A minute or two for you, years for me. (Those who've watched me post since the ESPN board probably can attest to my improved polish, especially in the last couple years).

    Again, don't assume everyone's brain works the same way. We're all wired differently.

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  20. #34
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    For you it takes a minute or two. For me, I keep working on precision, and find new ways to express my ideas when I read through my prose. I have to willfully stop trying to communicate, and concentrate on cosmetics, because other people think I should--not because it has actual intrinsic value. It is a concession of my priorities that I make (something that goes far beyond what others would call my former laziness). It's taken me years of effort and thousand of pages of writing to get my brain and my habits to abide by such. A minute or two for you, years for me. (Those who've watched me post since the ESPN board probably can attest to my improved polish, especially in the last couple years).

    Again, don't assume everyone's brain works the same way. We're all wired differently.
    For what it's worth...I do the same thing. I know that I make grammatical errors frequently because my brain and my fingers don't work at the same speed. And sometimes, even when I re-read it looking for grammar, my brain starts working on revision of wording/emphasis more than grammar. I almost feel like my brain just doesn't care as much about grammar as it does, as you say, about the intrinsic value of what I'm saying.

    So, you're not alone. I share your views about it not always being a matter of laziness. I'd say it's more about priorities.

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  22. #35
    Twins Moderator All-Star ChiTownTwinsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    For you it takes a minute or two. For me, I keep working on precision, and find new ways to express my ideas when I read through my prose. I have to willfully stop trying to communicate, and concentrate on cosmetics, because other people think I should--not because it has actual intrinsic value. It is a concession of my priorities that I make (something that goes far beyond what others would call my former laziness). It's taken me years of effort and thousand of pages of writing to get my brain and my habits to abide by such. A minute or two for you, years for me. (Those who've watched me post since the ESPN board probably can attest to my improved polish, especially in the last couple years).

    Again, don't assume everyone's brain works the same way. We're all wired differently.
    I'm not asking for perfection. I'm not even asking for anything as it is up to us individually how we want to present our arguments. And I am still able to appreciate a good thought even when riddled with errors. But it does detract. Whether or not that's fair is another debate. But it does detract. And I know your posting well enough through the years to know the effort you put into it so while you are taking this personally to some degree, I do not point this at you whatsoever.

    As for how people's brains work, my sister is an educator and this is a very key component to her teaching style so I am well aware of that. However, basic lessons need not be overlooked for the sake of hurrying to make a post. There are many reasons going on here ... an intentional lack of caring is different from one who just has difficulties.

  23. #36
    I'm in total agreement with PseudoSABR. My pet peeve is when people comment on the grammatical mistakes in a post instead of the content. The purpose of posting is to have a conversation/discussion, however, it seems that many lose the intent by picking out the meaningless mistakes that "bother" the reader.

    "Say It Ain't SanO..."

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  25. #37
    Twins News Team All-Star PseudoSABR's Avatar
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    But it does detract.
    I don't want to hound this to death. But--for you--it detracts. Not for me. That you can't overlook errors, or that it detracts from the content, says something about your priorities or preferences, not something universal.

    I've been teaching writing for more than a decade. One of the strategies I use is that I correct my students' grammar, but never deduct points, and I emphasize them cultivating a voice that is persuasive and organized--and those students with severe grammar problems inevitably get better and better at grammar as there desire to be heard increases.

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  27. #38
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Monkeypaws's Avatar
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    I could care less, grammer nazis are dominate.

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  29. #39
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    As for how people's brains work, my sister is an educator and this is a very key component to her teaching style so I am well aware of that. However, basic lessons need not be overlooked for the sake of hurrying to make a post. There are many reasons going on here ... an intentional lack of caring is different from one who just has difficulties.
    As someone who has studied philosophy and theology, I can share that some of our greatest minds with some of the most profound ideas ever put to paper by human beings have absolutely some of the worst grammar and sentence structure you'll ever encounter. Pseudo's right - it's about priorities, not laziness or incompetence as a writer.

    I certainly can see how it annoys you, but that doesn't annoy my brain. I easily see what the person meant and move on. I don't dwell on it and it doesn't detract from the central point for me. We of this persuasion take a pretty fierce beating these days for our priorities and I think it gets lost that our concentration on substance rather than style isn't all bad.

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  31. #40
    I have an idea. Perhaps the Twins should cut, waive, trade or sell to Korea this Chris P guy whose name no one can spell. It is obvious to all concerned that he is the cause of the Twins poor play due to people obsessing over the spelling of his name. He is currently the subject of a thread on Twins Daily that has regressed into a grammar lesson that provides no constructive feedback or debate on how to improve the Twins major league team. Except this: no one can spell his name and it is distracting from the productive back and forth discourse by amateur baseball evaluators on a fan site to finding a solution to fielding a competitive major league baseball team for both the short and long term. Removing this player immediately from the team will solve all of the Twins current problems and finally end this pointless thread so that all of these knowledgeable and diehard thread posters can concentrate on the important topics of debating the upcoming 25 man and 40 man roster decisions which will not be made for several weeks.

    *The above post contains just the smallest bit of sarcasm. It is for entertainment purposes only and was not intended as a direct attack on any particular poster or posters in general. I was bored and annoyed that I read this thread in it's entirety and cannot get the lost time that I devoted to reading this thread back. Perhaps I will be lucky in the choice of the next thread I read and will not have to submit myself to reading non-baseball related topics on a baseball site. One can only hope....

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