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Thread: Article: Payroll and Roster Notes

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    Twins Contributor All-Star Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
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    Article: Payroll and Roster Notes


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    Senior Member Triple-A h2oface's Avatar
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    Virtually the same payroll as last year. Middle of the road and worse starters were signed. If the front office was sincere about winning, they would have actually "spent" more money.

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    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h2oface View Post
    Virtually the same payroll as last year. Middle of the road and worse starters were signed. If the front office was sincere about winning, they would have actually "spent" more money.
    I wish they had upgraded the offense, but I think the Hughes signing is a shrewd one. I expect him to do very well.

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    Yeah, pretty much the same. I had their final payroll last year just a bit over $80m.

    I think a big difference, though, is their willingness to spend. They made competitive efforts for both Garza and now, apparently, Santana. Not that there is much they can do with it now - I don't see them blowing by draft and IFA limits - but I think they've set themselves up well to acquire talent next year and have a lot of payroll to throw money at their young studs when they start to get expensive. ("Studs" assuming that Dozier and Arcia progress, Sano returns healthy and Buxton remains all-world. Oh, and Meyer, but he's a Boras guy, so he's seven years from FA regardless.)

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    Please ban me! All-Star stringer bell's Avatar
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    I don't want to be provocative, but what were the Twins supposed to do? They have either established players or good prospects at almost every position. They tried to sign a fairly two established catchers and made offers to several starters. They could spend a lot of money extending players, but there really is no reason to do this. They have lost more than 90 games three straight years, they have top talent in their farm system that is mostly a year or more away (the top four prospects haven't played above AA, and only one has played a full (injury marred) season at that level. Premium free agents are going to be a tough sell until the team is truly on the cusp. They have money to spend in coming years, they can probably take on a large contract or two in trade and they have some great prospects getting close. I don't think that means the club should overpay for free agents and I don't think it means they should gut their farm system to acquire top talent via trade. Until this year, it appears that money not spent just went into the Pohlad's pocket. This year, they have shown they will spend. It gives us some hope that the team will spend again next year when the market and the team's situation may be considerably different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringer bell View Post
    I don't want to be provocative, but what were the Twins supposed to do? They have either established players or good prospects at almost every position. They tried to sign a fairly two established catchers and made offers to several starters. They could spend a lot of money extending players, but there really is no reason to do this. They have lost more than 90 games three straight years, they have top talent in their farm system that is mostly a year or more away (the top four prospects haven't played above AA, and only one has played a full (injury marred) season at that level. Premium free agents are going to be a tough sell until the team is truly on the cusp. They have money to spend in coming years, they can probably take on a large contract or two in trade and they have some great prospects getting close. I don't think that means the club should overpay for free agents and I don't think it means they should gut their farm system to acquire top talent via trade. Until this year, it appears that money not spent just went into the Pohlad's pocket. This year, they have shown they will spend. It gives us some hope that the team will spend again next year when the market and the team's situation may be considerably different.
    There are a lot of ways they could use that money:

    1) Be creative with contracts. Rework Mauer's deal so that he get's $50 million this season and then only $14 million/year in his last 3 seasons. Front load Nolasco's deal so that the Twins pay him $30 million this season but only owe him $6 million per year the rest of the way. Rework Perkins' deal so that you pay him a bit more this season (say an additional $4 million) but you get a second option year for 2017 at just $4 million again.

    2) Offer big money short term deals for great players. Offer Ervin Santana or Matt Garza a 3 year $45 million deal. It's more than he'll get per year on a 5 year deal and he'll have an opportunity to potentially hit FA in a couple more years. The Twins also won't have the big risk of those last few years. Since the Twins won't use that money otherwise the fact that it is an "overpay" is irrelevant.

    3) Go hogwild in international free-agency like the Cubs did last offseason.

    4) Put that money into adding to your analytics staff. Pay an outside company/Professor to study pitchers health and how minor league arms should be treated to best prevent injuries. Use the company/professor to do a comprehensive study on which type of draftee/IFA turns into MLB pitchers, hitters, fielders, sluggers etc....

    5) Pay your minor league players better.

    6) View your minor league players as assets and pay for their food and hire nutritional advisors. Pay for therapists to teach the young guys how to deal with stress and pressure and positive thinking.

    7) Reduce Season ticket prices.

    8) Reduce the cost of concessions at Target Field.

    9) Do a big raffle at every home game where one lucky fan wins big money. Say $300,000.

    10) Make a giant (and very public) donation to charity. Essentially buy good public relations.

    There are some ideas off the top of my head.
    Last edited by Oxtung; 03-09-2014 at 11:18 PM.

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    My wife's golf partner is related to one of the Pohlads. She said they are big with Save the Whales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    My wife's golf partner is related to one of the Pohlads. She said they are big with Save the Whales.
    This double-entendre made me laugh. I woke my room mate up. Shame on you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by h2oface View Post
    Virtually the same payroll as last year. Middle of the road and worse starters were signed. If the front office was sincere about winning, they would have actually "spent" more money.
    Last season 3 of the top 10 payroll teams made the play-offs, as did 3 of the bottom 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Last season 3 of the top 10 payroll teams made the play-offs, as did 3 of the bottom 5.
    And if the Twins were a really good and cheap team, that would be relevant. But they're not, they're a team that could easily lose 90 games again this year and shock no one. So when that's the case and people don't see you taking advantage of a way to improve that is open to you, then people are going to rip you for that. And as Oxtung pointed out, there are a ton of ways you could use the gap between what the Twins' payroll is allowed to be and what it actually is that TR could take advantage of that don't even involve signing more FAs.

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    There was a total stud Cuban DH available, that will haunt them for years in Chicago. They could have offered more money, and signed one of those catchers. They could trade some of that years away talent (anyone remember Joe Benson) for proven expensive players. They could adjust contracts as suggested above. They could still sign Santana and Drew.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    There's one more thing that they could have done.

    Publicly announce that the 50% "rule" has gone by the wayside.

    I don't have as much problem with them failing to spend more this year as Mike does but I want some public acknowledgment that down the road when they may be in a contending position, they are going to be willing to go significantly beyond that 50% if that's what it takes to try to put the final pieces in place.

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    JB, I agree with you. IF they spent the savings to go over budget, I'd feel better about using tax dollars to subsidize tickets, payroll, and profits.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Quote Originally Posted by howieramone View Post
    Last season 3 of the top 10 payroll teams made the play-offs, as did 3 of the bottom 5.
    So...the answer out of this mess is to cut more payroll?

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    Senior Member All-Star Jim Crikket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    So...the answer out of this mess is to cut more payroll?
    Don't even joke about that. Especially now that the front office types apparently occasionally peruse TD!
    I opine about the Twins and Kernels regularly at Knuckleballsblog.com while my alter ego, SD Buhr covers the Kernels for MetroSportsReport.com.

    ~You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxtung View Post
    There are a lot of ways they could use that money:

    1) Be creative with contracts. Rework Mauer's deal so that he get's $50 million this season and then only $14 million/year in his last 3 seasons. Front load Nolasco's deal so that the Twins pay him $30 million this season but only owe him $6 million per year the rest of the way. Rework Perkins' deal so that you pay him a bit more this season (say an additional $4 million) but you get a second option year for 2017 at just $4 million again.
    I believe this is not allowed per the CBA. While the CBA doesn't limit pay increases it does put a limit on pay cut's. I believe a current player's salary can only decrease 20% from one year to the next.
    Last edited by SweetOne69; 03-10-2014 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Corrected percentage

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    Then make it a signing bonus, sweeetone.....not that hard really. Add 1 dollar to his salary, and convert some of it to signing bonus.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    Then make it a signing bonus, sweeetone.....not that hard really. Add 1 dollar to his salary, and convert some of it to signing bonus.
    I don't think that would still be allowed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    There was a total stud Cuban DH available, that will haunt them for years in Chicago. They could have offered more money, and signed one of those catchers. They could trade some of that years away talent (anyone remember Joe Benson) for proven expensive players. They could adjust contracts as suggested above. They could still sign Santana and Drew.
    Another option was to take on a bad contract. If the player is a good player but is just getting over paid the Twins could take that on and perhaps it would require little in return.

    I wouldn't have advocated for say, Fielder, even assuming we could have gotten him for his salary alone, which we couldn't have. But what about Buehrle, Dickey, Alfonso Soriano or Jimmy Rollins? How about some big risk, big reward moves like seeing what Philadelphia wants for Cliff Lee or Papelbon. They are both excellent right now but they also both have multiple big money years left and are getting very old.

    There are probably more out there I'm not thinking of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SweetOne69 View Post
    I believe this is not allowed per the CBA. While the CBA doesn't limit pay increases it does put a limit on pay cut's. I believe a current player's salary can only decrease 20% from one year to the next.
    I don't think that applies in this situation. There was a team that did exactly what I'm talking about this off season, though not quite to the extreme that I was suggesting perhaps. For the life of me I can't think of who it was though.

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