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Thread: Heyman: The Twins made a 3-year offer to Ervin Santana

  1. #101
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    The quotes might be out there somewhere but I just heard a clip of Lavelle asking Rob Antony about this offer and Antony basically said "We have a lot of multi-year commitments right now, this probably wouldn't be in our best interest"

    Maybe that was out of context, but that was the jist of it.

  2. #102
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    The quotes might be out there somewhere but I just heard a clip of Lavelle asking Rob Antony about this offer and Antony basically said "We have a lot of multi-year commitments right now, this probably wouldn't be in our best interest"

    Maybe that was out of context, but that was the jist of it.
    Rhett Bolinger also indicated that it was unlikely, in a balanced piece about the fifth starter spot.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/min/...n&ymd=20140310

    I found the last quote interesting.

    "[We] have roster issues, guys that are out of options, but I think you take the best player," Gardenhire said. "Best pitcher. That's what we have to do. We've lost enough. Now it's time to take the best pitchers."
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  3. #103
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    Sounds like Gardy is tired of the slim pickings of the past.

  4. #104
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKGuy View Post
    Sounds like Gardy is tired of the slim pickings of the past.
    Aren't we all?

  5. #105
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer amjgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    The quotes might be out there somewhere but I just heard a clip of Lavelle asking Rob Antony about this offer and Antony basically said "We have a lot of multi-year commitments right now, this probably wouldn't be in our best interest"

    Maybe that was out of context, but that was the jist of it.
    That quote isn't quite right (but it's relatively close), but a) you didn't include the quote that immediately followed which was a canned "we're always looking to improve the team", and more importantly b) the quote doesn't do justice to what I perceived as a "I know you know that I know that we're talking about Ervin Santana, but I'd prefer not to talk directly about that" undertone

  6. #106
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    Aren't we all?
    Disapproves:

    slim1.jpg

    / Slim Pickens, of the past

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  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    The quotes might be out there somewhere but I just heard a clip of Lavelle asking Rob Antony about this offer and Antony basically said "We have a lot of multi-year commitments right now, this probably wouldn't be in our best interest"

    Maybe that was out of context, but that was the jist of it.
    This certainly doesn't square with the reports that there is still a standing offer out there. More bad reporting? Or a slip-up in messaging on behalf of the Twins? Just a PR move to show the fans "We're still trying"?

  9. #108
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amjgt View Post
    That quote isn't quite right (but it's relatively close), but a) you didn't include the quote that immediately followed which was a canned "we're always looking to improve the team", and more importantly b) the quote doesn't do justice to what I perceived as a "I know you know that I know that we're talking about Ervin Santana, but I'd prefer not to talk directly about that" undertone
    Well I appreciate the context, I didn't hear anything other than the snippet. What went on in those negotiations is anyone's guess. The reports are that an offer was made but there are also conflicting reports.

    In any case, I think Antony's point should be well-taken. FA, as far as I know, happens next year too. It isn't essential to hand out as many 2+ year deals as we can right now as if we'll never have the money or opportunity to do so again if needed.

    Especially since we (hopefully) have some young standouts on the way very soon (as in this year!) that will need more than injury fill-in opportunities.

  10. #109
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    This certainly doesn't square with the reports that there is still a standing offer out there. More bad reporting? Or a slip-up in messaging on behalf of the Twins? Just a PR move to show the fans "We're still trying"?
    Have the Twins confirmed the offer is on the table? I had not read that. Sounds to me like more bad reporting. It wouldn't be the first time a reporter fell for the "my client has an offer from team X" trick.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  11. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Have the Twins confirmed the offer is on the table? I had not read that. Sounds to me like more bad reporting. It wouldn't be the first time a reporter fell for the "my client has an offer from team X" trick.
    Published today:

    "Ken Rosenthal of FoxSports also has some specifics on recent offers made to Santana; the Orioles' last three-year offer was believed to be in the $27MM range, while the three-year offer from the Twins was in the $30-33MM range. That offer was still on the table as of last night."

  12. #111
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Published today:

    "Ken Rosenthal of FoxSports also has some specifics on recent offers made to Santana; the Orioles' last three-year offer was believed to be in the $27MM range, while the three-year offer from the Twins was in the $30-33MM range. That offer was still on the table as of last night."
    Rosenthal reporting it and the Twins confirming it are not the same thing. Nor does that mean it wasn't offered, but it leaves questions.

  13. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Well I appreciate the context, I didn't hear anything other than the snippet. What went on in those negotiations is anyone's guess. The reports are that an offer was made but there are also conflicting reports.

    In any case, I think Antony's point should be well-taken. FA, as far as I know, happens next year too. It isn't essential to hand out as many 2+ year deals as we can right now as if we'll never have the money or opportunity to do so again if needed.

    Especially since we (hopefully) have some young standouts on the way very soon (as in this year!) that will need more than injury fill-in opportunities.
    Does it come down to a sense of urgency from both the owner and the marketing department to stop the bleeding at the ticket window and effect change on the current image after the 2013 of the Twins Starting Rotation from "laughingstock" to major league "legitimate"?

    Why else the long and public pursuit of Garza, Johan, and now Santana?

  14. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    Rosenthal reporting it and the Twins confirming it are not the same thing. Nor does that mean it wasn't offered, but it leaves questions.
    I agree- bad reporting could be the culprit, or misdirection from the club or the agent. It's just what's currently out there. And Anthony's comments bear no resemblance to Rosenthal's. So many questions.

    Berardino is doing the main frontline reporting on this, he's apparently got his ironclad source on the story (agent?), here's what he said last night:

    "Six weeks after falling short in their pursuit of Matt Garza, the Twins are still trying to add to their starting rotation.
    According to a person with direct knowledge, the Twins have made an offer to free-agent right-hander Ervin Santana. That offer remained on the table as of late Sunday, the person said, but it was unclear if Santana was inclined to accept it.
    According to CBS Sports.com, the Twins’ offer was for three years at an undisclosed sum.
    However, the person with direct knowledge indicated the Twins could greatly improve their chances of landing Santana if they were to guarantee a fourth year on his contract."
    Last edited by jokin; 03-10-2014 at 09:36 PM.

  15. #114
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    And yet many other reports say Santana wants one year, not multiple years. So this source with direct knowledge is implying a method to improve their chances that directly contradicts the majority of other reports.

    In any case, Ervin Santana and his inconsistent career aren't going to make any significant changes on ticket sales.

  16. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    And yet many other reports say Santana wants one year, not multiple years. So this source with direct knowledge is implying a method to improve their chances that directly contradicts the majority of other reports.

    In any case, Ervin Santana and his inconsistent career aren't going to make any significant changes on ticket sales.
    Maybe not his name per se, but finally having a guy coming off of an ERA+ year of 127 and with a career ERA+ of 100 would certainly be a refreshing change for the hometown faithful.

    The same arguments you make about Santana can be made even more strongly about Nolasco, Hughes and Pelfrey, none of them, on a name basis alone, perk up ticket sales, but it's obvous that the Twins pulled out all the stops concerning the rotation this offseason for a reason- they have been losing credibility and paying the price at the ticket window and the TV ratings with the sub-standard product they've foisted on the Twins the last 3 years.

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  18. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    And yet many other reports say Santana wants one year, not multiple years. So this source with direct knowledge is implying a method to improve their chances that directly contradicts the majority of other reports.
    "Majority of other reports?"

    Every report I've read includes both the long-term (Orioles and Twins) and one-year scenarios (Orioles, Jays, Braves) in the body of their reportage.

  19. #117
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    The same arguments you make about Santana can be made even more strongly about Nolasco, Hughes and Pelfrey, none of them, on a name basis alone, perk up ticket sales
    None of them fixed ticket sales either. That's why it's a silly argument to make.

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...o-sign-quickly

    This is what is being said about what Santana wants. A one year deal to re-establish value and get away from having a comp pick attached to him.

  20. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    None of them fixed ticket sales either. That's why it's a silly argument to make.

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...o-sign-quickly

    This is what is being said about what Santana wants. A one year deal to re-establish value and get away from having a comp pick attached to him.
    CBS sports, dated March 7. This same author also reported on the Orioles and Twins offers yesterday, and he also quotes Ken Rosenthal in your link. They've covered all angles of the story- short and long-term. And won't the comp pick just be around his neck again next year?

    "Silly argument to make?" Why didn't the Twins just keep trotting out PJ, Cole and Pedro- they could have saved $84M by doing nothng- if not to make games more entertaining and competitive to the ticket-buying fanbase?

  21. #119
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I don't know if the Twins' offer is still on the table (Antony apparently didn't totally disavow it) but I just don't think it matters.

    There hasn't been much come out today except the possibility of a one-year deal with Atlanta given the injury status of Medlen and Beachy.

    I don't think the comp pick is an issue next year if he signs a one-year deal this year but that is just from memory.

    I still don't think that 3/$33m is really in the ballpark. Heyman (who seems to be pretty on top of this story) seems to think that Santana is still looking for 4 years at around $50 million. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/...he-ervin-derby

    If the 4th year is an important part of the equation to him (and I read somewhere else that it was), I don't see the Twins going that far based on Antony's comments tonight.

    It still looks to me like this is primarily among Santana's one-year suitors. The question is which one -- and now it looks like Toronto, Baltimore and Atlanta might be interested.

  22. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    At some point adding guaranteed contracts and 40 man spots starts to work against a rebuild too. Had this been Santana over Pelfrey - hell yeah. But what are they going to do? Have Saunders and Santana join and do a 7 man rotation? You reach a threshold at which point "more" no longer helps enough to warrant the commitment. I think, for 2014, we're there for SP.
    I didn't want to lose this quote.

    I would rate our offense as a bigger problem currently but at least there are quite a few great prospects on the way to save it. Our pitching hopes rest on Meyer and there is a little hope that Gibson could become what Santana is. That really doesn't make it a great idea to pass on him imo.

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