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Thread: Berardino: Tough Talk from Rob Antony

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    You are right to be angry. I cannot believe Antony statement. Other than showing complete ignorance about certain players' performances, it also is very inappropriate.
    Ignorance? OBP .269 from a guy you wanted to lead off is good and says PLAY ME? Is there someone else that Antony mentioned actually doing well this spring? From what I have seen the offense has mostly come alive in the later innings when the minor league pitchers were on the mound and our mleaguers were batting. This season may make last season's offense look good.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Highabove's Avatar
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    I have affection for 'em, but watching diminished Kubel, Bartlett and Guerrier is like watching a '90s hair band at a casino.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Welcome back, Mr Brooks. It seems like more voices like yours are needed, as the TD community, as well as the club itself, are uncomfortably "caught" at the proverbial road sign:

    Thanks.
    Just glad to have spring baseball in the air.
    No matter how bad the home team may be, baseball season is still the best time of the year.

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    I call this "preparing the ground". It has been surmised that all of the millions spent on pitching won't result in a contender--so blame the players. Start with the group "competing for a job". These guys are the low-hanging fruit. I have to stop there given the moderator's note about only discussing ST.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Brad Swanson's Avatar
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    Everyone (including Antony) should understand that Spring stats are useless because the level of competition is hard to gauge and the sample is too small. In 30 plate appearances, the difference between an unacceptable .269 OBP and a completely acceptable .369 OBP is three times on-base.

    Now, to Antony's credit, he didn't really cite any stats. I did, but mostly because I haven't seen enough of the players this Spring to know how they are playing. Antony has. In that way, I do need to defer to him. If he sees players playing poorly, he has the right to feel that way. I'd prefer he communicates that message directly to the players, not indirectly through the media. If I have a problem with an employee, I talk to them, I don't rely on another group to relay my message.
    Works on contingency? No, money down!
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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Leauge Ready View Post
    He could have simply said "we have not had players step-up as we had hoped". What was to be gained by flogging specific players. You would think Ozzie Guillen's example would have taught the rest of league to avoid this behavior.
    As if we wouldn't have known who he was talking about if he didn't use names? Why not just come out and say it? Challenging a few players to step up (even by name) doesn't put you in Ozzie Guillen territory.... or even on the map.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Exactly. These comments are inexcusable.
    I don't get it. I'd think this crowd would embrace the front office finally being more direct and forthright. I can understand disagreeing with parts of his sentiments, but I don't see the full on blasting that some people are making this out to be. Flogging? Inexcusable?

    Feels like more assumptions from lack of context around a small portion of a much larger conversation. These types of reactions are exactly how you end up with players, managers, and front offices that won't give you any information... and then the speculation is even worse than what we get today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise One View Post
    Ignorance? OBP .269 from a guy you wanted to lead off is good and says PLAY ME? Is there someone else that Antony mentioned actually doing well this spring?
    Antony does say "Deduno has done a nice job" but then moments later says "Nobodyís really stepped up to try to earn the spots." Seems like a contradiction there. Gibson has also done well, performance pretty close to the 3 FA SP signings.

    Tonkin, Guerra, and probably a few LHP have done well too out of the bullpen.

    Offense is a bit more muddied, and the various CF have been underwhelming, but if they were genuinely competing for something, Pinto, Herrmann, Arcia, Colabello, and Santana all did okay with the stick.

    Then again, all but a handful of hitters in camp are making league minimum or are NRIs, with few current/recent prospects, so what could be reasonably expected? Even of the vets, the starting catcher is an acknowledged poor hitter, the starting LF is 35 and coming off his worst MLB season to date, and the starting 1B is making a position switch that will likely diminish the value of his offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    Antony absolutely should be the heir-apparent to the GM job. He's been in the organization and worked his way up. He's been in the upper front office levels for probably a dozen years. He's absolutely ready to take over.
    Seth, do you realize the exact same thing could have been written about Bill Smith in 2007?

    I don't think anyone disputes whether the Twins think Antony's ready, but the debate here is, is he likely to succeed?

  13. #49
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Rereading the article in the sober light of the morning: He talks about how not to get too caries away with stats, which is good to hear. But then why is he getting carried away with stats relative to the center field battle? Havering watched both players this spring, it's clear to these amateur scouting eyes that Hicks is playing better. His outs are hard hit, after seeing five pitches. Presley's outs are pop ups and dribblers on the second or third pitch. Defensively, there's really no comparison. So why would he say what he said?

    1. He's building a case to send Hicks down to buy service time. This possibility seems far fetched since Hicks spent last August and September in Rochester.

    2. He's trying to motivate them. This seems the most likely, but it doesn't reflect well on him. Somebody said praise publicly, criticize privately. I agree. It's never good to make your employees think your a dick.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Swanson View Post
    Everyone (including Antony) should understand that Spring stats are useless because the level of competition is hard to gauge and the sample is too small. In 30 plate appearances, the difference between an unacceptable .269 OBP and a completely acceptable .369 OBP is three times on-base.

    Now, to Antony's credit, he didn't really cite any stats. I did, but mostly because I haven't seen enough of the players this Spring to know how they are playing. Antony has. In that way, I do need to defer to him. If he sees players playing poorly, he has the right to feel that way. I'd prefer he communicates that message directly to the players, not indirectly through the media. If I have a problem with an employee, I talk to them, I don't rely on another group to relay my message.
    Ok, I will say that if he is aware of the things we don't know about in practice and whatnot and isn't referring to game statistics, then that would be nice. I don't get that impression. And *this* place is full of super-attachment to spring training stats as though they mean anything. Judging the offense as a whole because of spring training games is comical. We jabber about SSS meaning little but then we resort to it every spring. Good lord, Wilkin Ramirez homered in one of his first 10 at bats and people were calling for his "bench power bat."

  15. #51
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Rereading the article in the sober light of the morning: He talks about how not to get too caries away with stats, which is good to hear. But then why is he getting carried away with stats relative to the center field battle? Havering watched both players this spring, it's clear to these amateur scouting eyes that Hicks is playing better. His outs are hard hit, after seeing five pitches. Presley's outs are pop ups and dribblers on the second or third pitch. Defensively, there's really no comparison. So why would he say what he said?

    1. He's building a case to send Hicks down to buy service time. This possibility seems far fetched since Hicks spent last August and September in Rochester.

    2. He's trying to motivate them. This seems the most likely, but it doesn't reflect well on him. Somebody said praise publicly, criticize privately. I agree. It's never good to make your employees think your a dick.
    This is a good post! Thanks for articulating it well. Sometimes my flabbergastedness gets in the way of even a shred of eloquence!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    Ok, I will say that if he is aware of the things we don't know about in practice and whatnot and isn't referring to game statistics, then that would be nice.
    I suspect that the organization isn't particularly impressed with Hicks for a few reasons:

    1. He didn't play winter ball, something they wanted him to do.

    2. He was out for nearly a week early in ST.

    I don't think this has anything to do with stats in Spring Training... When Gardy made the comment about not knowing where Hicks was and that he hadn't spoken to him, I muttered "uh oh".

    Right or wrong, I think Hicks has irritated some of the Twins brass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post

    Right or wrong, I think Hicks has irritated some of the Twins brass.
    I get this sense too. I look forward to seeing Hicks as the Twins' closer in 2019.
    Works on contingency? No, money down!
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    It's hard not to comment on the job the FO did, when discussing why no one is stepping up. The issue is that they don't have enough good players. Their vaunted minor league system is set to graduate zero players onto this roster this year that will be starters, three years into being one of the five worst teams in the game. And, between 1 and all of the players that graduated last year might start in the minors. Until they have some actual good players, the FO should be lamenting what they are seeing on the field.
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Rereading the article in the sober light of the morning: He talks about how not to get too caries away with stats, which is good to hear. But then why is he getting carried away with stats relative to the center field battle? Havering watched both players this spring, it's clear to these amateur scouting eyes that Hicks is playing better. His outs are hard hit, after seeing five pitches. Presley's outs are pop ups and dribblers on the second or third pitch. Defensively, there's really no comparison. So why would he say what he said?
    Hicks will get the job. Antony is just moaning that he's not playing like Kirby Puckett, which he never was to begin with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane Wahl View Post
    WAR stands for Wins Above Replacement. That figure starts in the mid 50s in terms of wins. Spend from there.
    I understand that the concept starts from a presumed baseline. I spelled out the case that you don't necessarily need to spend an additional $210M in annual payroll to get an additional 30 wins from that baseline. Can we all agree with USAF Chief, that this concept of WAR is still an inexact science, at best?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I suspect that the organization isn't particularly impressed with Hicks for a few reasons:

    1. He didn't play winter ball, something they wanted him to do.

    2. He was out for nearly a week early in ST.

    I don't think this has anything to do with stats in Spring Training... When Gardy made the comment about not knowing where Hicks was and that he hadn't spoken to him, I muttered "uh oh".

    Right or wrong, I think Hicks has irritated some of the Twins brass.
    He spent the winter working out, including putting on a bunch of muscle and spending three days a week in the cage with Rod Carew. They knew where he was. They're just being dickish. It's not endearing from the manager who hasn't managed to win 70 games in any of the last three years, or from the assistant GM who presided over the building of those teams.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    I understand that the concept starts from a presumed baseline. I spelled out the case that you don't necessarily need to spend an additional $210M in annual payroll to get an additional 30 wins from that baseline. Can we all agree with USAF Chief, that this concept of WAR is still an inexact science, at best?
    The problem is that the foundation of talent isn't sufficient here to buy themselves much past mediocrity. The problem isn't the money spent, the problem is about a half a decade's worth of drafting that produced little in the way of contributors, some bad luck with centerpiece players (looking at you Morneau), and some bad personnel decisions.

    The notion they could spend their way out of all that just isn't feasible or reasonable. It's also not reasonable, as Barreiro was right to say, to feign shock publicly that your meagerly talented team is performing meagerly. I would've had more patience for these quotes if Antony had gone out of his way to laud Deduno, Gibson, and others for coming in ready to earn a job. This would've felt more authentic and meaningful in that case.

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    Man, sprialling into 52% talk range again......

    the players are bad. That's the problem here. They don't have enough good players. And yet, most of the FO and scouts still have their jobs, right?
    Lighten up Francis....

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    He spent the winter working out, including putting on a bunch of muscle and spending three days a week in the cage with Rod Carew. They knew where he was.

    They're just being dickish.

    It's not endearing from the manager who hasn't managed to win 70 games in any of the last three years, or from the assistant GM who presided over the building of those teams.
    "You don't say?"





    "Nuff said"

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