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Thread: Article: Monday Morning Roster Cuts

  1. #61
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halsey Hall View Post
    Oh he wouldn't be out there much, just as Presley shouldn't be either. Bartlett would spend alot more time in other positions. I'm certainly not a Presley fan and would rather have Mastro around. I don't see Presley as a loss if gone.
    Guys like him can be valuable bench players in case of day-to-day injuries. You need depth in center and short.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  2. #62
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PseudoSABR View Post
    Oh, agreed. I had assumed that Presley had options given the talk about Bartlett playing CF. Presley clearly makes the roster. Maybe they are just trying to lure Bartlett into taking the minor league deal rather than giving him release (ala Guerrier). Bartlett has a wife or home or something in Rochester (iirc)?
    I think that's a fair assessment. Not sure how interested Bartlett is to play in AAA. When I was at the Twins Rays game last Tuesday, several Rays fans were talking about how he turned down a job to coach in the Rays organization to give the majors one more shot. He might prefer to stay home in SW Florida with his family and wait for the GCL season than go to the minors. But that can wait until the end of spring. If someone gets injured, he probably makes the team. Otherwise he goes home.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  3. #63
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    The AAA guys are just a phone call and a day away; and having the perfect roster is less important than having a larger pool of players who can fill roles as injuries inevitably occur.[/QUOTE]

    I would contend that this is true but not to the extent that the Twins take it to. They end up with an influx of AAAA players at their top levels and don't necessarily reward those who appear to be progressing quite enough. I think it sends a bit of a mixed message to the players who you expect to be competing very hard when sometimes they know that it just doesn't matter. I would offer Theilbar, Tonkin and Colabello as examples of my point. All deserving of being rewarded for their efforts and results. Wanting to win and setting a culture for winning are two different things IMHO. I would prefer to focus on planning to win as opposed to planning for injuries by keeping AAAA players around to hoard them for impending disaster while diluting the major league roster. I think this is an area of frustration for a few fans out there.

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I'm sad, this looks like a bad team at this point.
    What was available from the start of camp to make it a good team?

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  7. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    He had a contractual date of tomorrow, though and he and the Twins mutually agreed to push it back to Sunday:

    http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_2...terans-opt-out
    It appears that was an opt out date for Bartlett, there is no Retention Bonus associated with it as with Guerrier and Kubel.

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Actually yes, if you take a look at the main Twins Talk forum page on TD (Click on "Forum Home") you'll find these:

    http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php/10647-Jose-Mijares

    http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php...Juan-Francisco

    http://twinsdaily.com/showthread.php/10635-J-D-Martinez

    You could go further back and find others, I'm sure.
    Thanks for these! I was also curious, similar to our team being down to the final 29 for 25 spots, if anyone had analyzed other rosters to the point where guys that hadn't been cut yet but could be cut (Mayberry, etc), could they be of interest to us? It's a big ask to analyze current rosters of 29 other teams but curious if someone had done that....

  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Did I miss something last year in that Colabello showed he was a good hitter at the major league level? As I remember it he was really bad and a few at bats in the spring often don't mean anything. Luke Hughes a few years ago, Aaron Hicks last year.
    The hope would be that if he learns to make contact with mlb pitching he can hit like he did in the minors. A 32% K rate makes if very difficult to have a good outcome.

  10. #68
    A metric that can be used to forecast which players make the 25 man, when choosing between a veteran and a newcomer, is the number of times Twins management uses the word "proven." Use of that magical word seems to tremendously increase the value of the player being referred to and minimize the value of any player being sacrificed so that the team can retain someone who is "proven." The funny thing is that, if management were measured by what has been "proven" by performance over the past few years, it would not be retained. Instead, management is measured by qualitative factors, such as skills assessment and predictions of future performance. Nonetheless, it seems that players for the Twins are measured more by past performance.

    A corollary to using past performance to measure players is a hesitation to sell at the top of a player's performance and a tendency to bail on a player right before an upturn, but those are discussions for another thread.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Did I miss something last year in that Colabello showed he was a good hitter at the major league level? As I remember it he was really bad and a few at bats in the spring often don't mean anything. Luke Hughes a few years ago, Aaron Hicks last year.
    Colabello's 2013 with the Twins wasn't that different that Kubel's 2013 with the Snakes and Cleveland. In Colabello's favor are (1) can play in the field; (2) less injury history; and (3) recent minor league performance projects very well.

    Kubel's first half of 2012 (new league, homer-friendly stadium) is likely to be a mirage.

    Is anyone else curious about whether another team would sign Kubel if the Twins cut him? Which ML team would be a fit for him?
    "Where's the Crede?"

  12. #70
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deduno Abides View Post
    but those are discussions for another thread.
    Moderator's note: Yes.

  13. #71
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    They would be wise to be looking at other players out of options. If not by trade, then by their early claim.

    Why not send Kubel down in order to give a look at a player squeezed off another roster? Some of those guys have to be better than the end of the Twins bench.

    If it doesn't work out, bring up Kubel in a month and try to get the player through waivers. Other teams do this all the time.

  14. #72
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    I'm sad, this looks like a bad team at this point.
    It does, but this has nothing to do with who got cut today. Regardless who made the trip North from the 39 players left in Camp before today, this team would still look bad...
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  15. #73
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer Joe A. Preusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gocgo View Post
    I know it's only spring training, but this team has scored 18 runs in the last 7 games. That's all I see from this lineup on a regular basis. To put it in perspective, Justin Verlander pitching every day for this team wouldn't go .500.

    That seems a bit of an overstatement. This year's Twins will score 5 runs a game and give up 4-5 runs a game. Back in the day when our offense struggled, Santana still went 17-6, and won a Cy Young with a 2.50ish ERA.

  16. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A. Preusser View Post
    That seems a bit of an overstatement. This year's Twins will score 5 runs a game and give up 4-5 runs a game. Back in the day when our offense struggled, Santana still went 17-6, and won a Cy Young with a 2.50ish ERA.
    I'm jealous of your optimism. I can see us scoring 5 runs a game maybe 30 time this season, but averaging around 3.8. We were no where near a 5 average last year, and this will be worse.
    Last edited by Halsey Hall; 03-24-2014 at 05:55 PM.

  17. #75
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe A. Preusser View Post
    That seems a bit of an overstatement. This year's Twins will score 5 runs a game and give up 4-5 runs a game. Back in the day when our offense struggled, Santana still went 17-6, and won a Cy Young with a 2.50ish ERA.
    Not to nitpic, but you might want to fact check everything in this post.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  18. #76
    Senior Member Triple-A raindog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Smith View Post
    Did I miss something last year in that Colabello showed he was a good hitter at the major league level? As I remember it he was really bad and a few at bats in the spring often don't mean anything. Luke Hughes a few years ago, Aaron Hicks last year.
    Just like the few at bats he had in the majors last season don't mean anything.

  19. #77
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    It's pretty embarrassing to have Jason Kubel on this team given Antony's comments about no one taking the job. Kubel is potentially done as anything other than a middling-DH hitter at best.

    You better believe that this means about a 50/50 split at C with Pinto basically never being the DH because of irrational fears. Herrmann might be more useful than Kubel anyway!

  20. #78
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    I don't know if Kubel or Bartlett should make the team this spring, but I do think their ages should have little to do with it. Their injury history is a consideration, as well as recent production, as well as this spring's performance. A major consideration is the competition. The thing is though, none of them(Parmelee, Collabello, Presley) are really at this point any kind of long term answer. Kubel and/or Bartlett are just about is likely to be around in 2 or 3 years as any of these guys. The long term answers are either in the minors or will have to be acquired through free agency or trades.

    So, I really think you put on the roster the guys you believe are most likely to help right now. I doubt if any of these guys have any long term future in the majors or with the Twins. The only possible exception is Parmelee and I am increasingly less confident that he can reach his potential.

  21. #79
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    It would not surprise me, if Kubel is healthy, to see him end up with the 2nd or 3rd highest OPS on the Twins in 2014. He will be 32, not terribly old, and has a lifetime .785 MLB OPS.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  23. #80
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    I am still disappointed in Tonkin beng sent down, but truthfully, there simply is not room for him at this time. His future is bright and he will undoubtedly be the first RP called up due to trade or injury, or move of Deduno back in to the rotation. (Hoping that happens, but not due to anything happening to Gibson)

    I believe Thielbar must and should be kept over Diamond, forgetting available options. There is a point of diminishing returns where you have to go with a quality young player that has, to some degree at least, proven his worth and figures to be a part of the team's future. No insult to Diamond, who gave us a very good 3/4 of a year in 2012, and who I have been rooting for. But he does have somewhat limited stuff, is not especially good at getting LH batters out, and has never proven anything in the pen to this point. Meanwhile, Thielbar pitched very well last season and has continued to pitch well this ST. He is younger and has better stuff. In no way can I see a failed starter taking his place and offering us 3 long relief candidates. I simply don't see the logic in that move.

    It seems Kubel is a given. And while just last week I was stating my preference to move on, he has hit better the past few games and has drawn some walks. This does very little to alleviate my concerns over a poor ending to 2012, a poor 2013, (yes, there was a reported injury factor) and a poor ST performance up until a few games ago. The best hope is, and Gardy and the coaches know far better than any of us I dare say, that there is life left and his timing is coming around. Certainly, he is by no means the first veteran ball player, injury or otherwise, to take a while to get his groove back.

    We have to hope the same can be said of Willingham, who has looked pretty bad thus far. Do we cross fingers at this point? Or does he come alive the last few games and when the starting bell rings?

    Despite a poor spring, Presley seems a given due to his CF ability off the bench, and a slid performance after acquiring him late last season. I'm just not sure anyone could feel comfortable marching Escobar or Parmalee (a big surprise taking a shot in CF) as even an occasional option to back up Hicks in CF. However, he may be on a short leash if he continues to under perform in favor of a Mastro recall or waiver acquisition.

    This leaves Parmalee and Colabello and Parmelee fighting for one spot. Colabello has proven about all he can in the minors. He may never be anything but a good story. And yet, he's mashed each of the last two seasons and had a good spring. A pretty mediocre trial with the Twins at the end of 2013 shouldn't be used as a sole indicator as to his potential as a late-blooming bench player. Late blooming role players are not uncommon, nor is some struggle for any player in their first go-around at the ML level. Parmelee has been a disappointment to be sure, but is younger, has some investment and limited pedigree, and offers not only more positional flexibility, but some decent defense and upside. And like many others, particularly last season when the Twins weren't going anywhere, I have been disappointed in his handling and lack of full season opportunity to see what he might work through in the name of progress. Right now, if he could swing a decent bat, he and Arcia in whatever combination of LF/RF flanking Hicks is probably our best OF.

    We probably need Colabello's RH bat more, but I'm thinking Parmelee makes the opening roster to begin with as Colabello still has options. This would give the team a month or so to begin the season and see how things unfold.

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