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Thread: Stephen Drew / Draft Compensation Question

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer amjgt's Avatar
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    Stephen Drew / Draft Compensation Question

    What happens if Stephen Drew is a FA on June 5th (the date of the MLB draft)?

    Does compensation move to the 2015 draft? If so, does our (or anyone's) top 10 protection apply to 2015 even if we move outside the top 10 picks?

    Did MLB even bother to consider such a scenario?

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    Quote Originally Posted by amjgt View Post
    What happens if Stephen Drew is a FA on June 5th (the date of the MLB draft)?

    Does compensation move to the 2015 draft? If so, does our (or anyone's) top 10 protection apply to 2015 even if we move outside the top 10 picks?

    Did MLB even bother to consider such a scenario?
    If he signs after the 2014 draft the draft pick compensation just goes way. The team signing him won't have to surrender any 2015 picks.

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    Twins Moderator All-Star diehardtwinsfan's Avatar
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    I honestly think they should amend the rules to allow players to sign a 1 year deal without compensation if they are unemployed at a certain point into ST. Drew is an upgrade over a lot of team's SS positions right now and remains unemployed due to the compensation pick... Granted, he and his agent poorly estimated his market demands, but signing a 1 year deal at a reduced price is bad enough vs. potentially not playing for a good chunk (or all) of 2014.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer amjgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmb0252 View Post
    If he signs after the 2014 draft the draft pick compensation just goes way. The team signing him won't have to surrender any 2015 picks.
    Thanks.

    At this point, that's what he should be waiting for.

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    Steven Drew would be a waste of money. If the Twins are willing to spend some more money they would be better of with Kendrys Morales. I still would not sign either player and surrender a 2nd round pick.

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    Senior Member Double-A SgtSchmidt11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    I honestly think they should amend the rules to allow players to sign a 1 year deal without compensation if they are unemployed at a certain point into ST. Drew is an upgrade over a lot of team's SS positions right now and remains unemployed due to the compensation pick... Granted, he and his agent poorly estimated his market demands, but signing a 1 year deal at a reduced price is bad enough vs. potentially not playing for a good chunk (or all) of 2014.
    This too would be taken advantage of. Imagine a gentleman's agreement to bump up the salary by 1MM or something if they delay signing until the draft compensation was released.

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    I think draft pick penalties will be gone in the next CBA. there are always a couple of cases where somebody isn't signed during spring training. This year there happen to be two bigger name players not signed on opening day due to this silly system.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kab21 View Post
    I think draft pick penalties will be gone in the next CBA. there are always a couple of cases where somebody isn't signed during spring training. This year there happen to be two bigger name players not signed on opening day due to this silly system.
    This "silly" system offers a small degree of balance. With the gap in revenue growing even larger, it provides the teams at the bottom something in return for being a farm system for the Yankees, Dodgers, and other teams at the top of the revenue period. It also allows teams to retain someone like Morales, who is obviously of questionable value on a multi-year deal, the opportunity to retain that player on a one year deal. Drew and Morales would have obviously been compensation above their annual value but refused contracts. Why? Because they want to get paid far more than they are worth while they are declining. They could have extremely well compensated but at this point they were only going to be able to sign at an elite level on a year by year basis. In other words, as long as they continued to earn it. So, how is this system silly?
    Last edited by Major Leauge Ready; 03-31-2014 at 06:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Leauge Ready View Post
    This "silly" system offers a small degree of balance. With the gap in revenue growing even larger, it provides the teams at the bottom something in return for being a farm system for the Yankees, Dodgers, and other teams at the top of the revenue period. It also allows teams to retain someone like Morales, who is obviously of questionable value on a multi-year deal, the opportunity to retain that player on a one year deal. Drew and Morales would have obviously been compensation above their annual value but refused contracts. Why? Because they want to get paid far more than they are worth while they are declining. They could have extremely well compensated but at this point they were only going to be able to sign at an elite level on a year by year basis. In other words, as long as they continued to earn it. So, how is this system silly?
    It's not working to help the small market teams though. The Yankees and Red Sox tagged six players this year for a QO and there was only 13 total players in all of baseball that even got one.

    The Pirates on the other hand didn't feel they could afford to offer AJ Burnett a QO as $14.5 million is a lot of money for a small market team to commit to. Burnett was a better player the last two years than Napoli, Drew and Granderson and probably equal to Kuroda. Gambling on an overpay is no big deal to the large market teams but it could cripple a payroll for a small market.

    No doubt when the CBA is renegotiated, it will be the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers who are in favor of keeping this provision while the Pirates, Twins and Royals would want to get rid of a system where they have to gamble $15+ million that a player won't take the bird in the hand.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 03-31-2014 at 07:51 AM.

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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    It's not working to help the small market teams though. The Yankees and Red Sox tagged six players this year for a QO and there was only 13 total players in all of baseball that even got one.

    The Pirates on the other hand didn't feel they could afford to offer AJ Burnett a QO as $14.5 million is a lot of money for a small market team to commit to. Burnett was a better player the last two years than Napoli, Drew and Granderson and probably equal to Kuroda. Gambling on an overpay is no big deal to the large market teams but it could cripple a payroll for a small market.

    No doubt when the CBA is renegotiated, it will be the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers who are in favor of keeping this provision while the Pirates, Twins and Royals would want to get rid of a system where they have to gamble $15+ million that a player won't take the bird in the hand.
    This is a really good point. If part of the purpose in the CBA is to level the playing field, it isn't doing its job. The Twins would have Drew at short if the Red Sox hadn't QOd him. As I said in another thread, they effectively Bogaerted available shortstops when they did that. If part of the purpose of the CBA is to help players get better opportunities, it is obviously not doing its job for those players given QOs. Rules that are neither good for players nor the owners are changed in the next CBA revision.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Leauge Ready View Post
    This "silly" system offers a small degree of balance. With the gap in revenue growing even larger, it provides the teams at the bottom something in return for being a farm system for the Yankees, Dodgers, and other teams at the top of the revenue period. It also allows teams to retain someone like Morales, who is obviously of questionable value on a multi-year deal, the opportunity to retain that player on a one year deal. Drew and Morales would have obviously been compensation above their annual value but refused contracts. Why? Because they want to get paid far more than they are worth while they are declining. They could have extremely well compensated but at this point they were only going to be able to sign at an elite level on a year by year basis. In other words, as long as they continued to earn it. So, how is this system silly?
    That is the theory but that isn't how things are. The Yankees and Red Sox (and other large market teams) have always made out like gangbusters due to comp picks. It's ironic almost that it has almost the opposite effect that you think it would.

    But comp picks aren't actually the problem. they can stay. The problem is that mid-market and definitely small market teams can't afford to lose a draft pick since that is an essential asset to their org. So the large market teams benefit again since they can afford to lose draft picks. Teams like the Twins can't sign anyone in FA even if they have the money.

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    An idea I heard just removes the player deadline to accept the qualifying offer (or moves it much later). So Drew could have taken his 1/14 at the start of ST.

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    Also, smaller markets can deal with QO. Pittsburgh was silly for not making the offer to Burnett, he was clearly worth it.

  17. #14
    Facts are Facts. Twins are better with either Stephen Drew or Kendrys Morales or both. When you are under your supposed salary cap, it's hard to state that they would be a waste of money when they make you BETTER.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    An idea I heard just removes the player deadline to accept the qualifying offer (or moves it much later). So Drew could have taken his 1/14 at the start of ST.
    That doesn't work at all. How could a team make any offseason moves if they have a standing QO on the table?

    The answer is to just get rid of the draft pick penalty. The QO system and comp picks can stay if people want to retain the illusion that it helps small market teams. Getting rid of the draft pick penalty allows every team to go after big FA's (if they have the money). And it keeps players out of this silly limbo.

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    Senior Member Big-Leaguer gil4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    The Twins would have Drew at short if the Red Sox hadn't QOd him.
    That is far from certain. The Twins weren't the only team in need of a shortstop but put off by the comp pick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Leauge Ready View Post
    This "silly" system offers a small degree of balance. With the gap in revenue growing even larger, it provides the teams at the bottom something in return for being a farm system for the Yankees, Dodgers, and other teams at the top of the revenue period. It also allows teams to retain someone like Morales, who is obviously of questionable value on a multi-year deal, the opportunity to retain that player on a one year deal. Drew and Morales would have obviously been compensation above their annual value but refused contracts. Why? Because they want to get paid far more than they are worth while they are declining. They could have extremely well compensated but at this point they were only going to be able to sign at an elite level on a year by year basis. In other words, as long as they continued to earn it. So, how is this system silly?
    So why not simply give the team an "extra" draft pick, rather than the signing team's pick?
    This way the team still gets compensated, but without punishing the signing team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twinscowboysbulls View Post
    Facts are Facts. Twins are better with either Stephen Drew or Kendrys Morales or both. When you are under your supposed salary cap, it's hard to state that they would be a waste of money when they make you BETTER.
    There is nothing factual about this. It is merely your opinion. For example; my opinion is that the Twins would be better off without either of them.

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    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
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    I think the Twins second pick is about 45 and that's what I looked up. 1965-2009 45 drafts the number 45 pick has had a 58% fail rate, the player never made it to the majors.

    33% made it and had a negative war or a career war of less than 3. Only 9% or 4 players in 45 years had a war over 3 and none of those were over 8.

    IMO getting a quality player like Drew that has produced around 16 war over his career seems like a great trade off. The chances of drafting a player and getting any decent production is less than 10%.

    I'd bet that you'd get more than that out of Drew even if he doesn't reproduce last year.
    This comment brought to you from the Rosedale Mall studio by Hamm's Beer, brewed in the land of sky blue waters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    So why not simply give the team an "extra" draft pick, rather than the signing team's pick?
    This way the team still gets compensated, but without punishing the signing team.
    Yes agreed. This is partly how the old system worked. Previously the buying team would lose a pick AND a secondary comp pick was created out of thin air. They should just award the manufactured pick in a compensation round immediately following the first 30 picks.

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