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Thread: Any thoughts on the top of the 8th yesterday?

  1. #21
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Nothing to second guess yesterday except the quality of the opposing starting pitcher. Wow that guy is good.

    I might have let Florimon hit though, since it wasn't a potentially game ending at bat situation. Suzuki came through by extending the inning to get to Mauer. They just got beat.

  2. #22
    Senior Member All-Star Willihammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    But therein lies the story of yesterday's game. The failures weren't on the fringes. The failures were with the players the Twins were counting on. While I have faith that Mauer will eventually get his game going, I have to see proof of a Dozier return to last year's form, Willingham and Kubel returns to something better than 2013 and a breakthrough from Arcia.

    One game does not a season make and it could all be reversed tomorrow with the fringes doing badly and the heart doing well -- the question is whether they ever get it together so that all parts of the line-up function with some competence. It's been a long time since we've seen that.
    Gardy is that you?

    Of course we could blame ever single loss on the players. Doesn't change Gardy's job which is to get the most out of them and give his team the best chance to win games.

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  4. #23
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    I would have gone with Pinto to hit and Esco to field in the bottom of the inning. But, Gardy has nightmares about needing to go with an emergency catcher, like his current first baseman.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  5. #24
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Gardy is that you?

    Of course we could blame ever single loss on the players. Doesn't change Gardy's job which is to get the most out of them and give his team the best chance to win games.
    I'd more resemble Carol than Gardy . But no, I don't blame all of the losses on the players and I thought your original question was a good one. I'm willing to wait and see if Gardenhire ever actually uses Pinto to DH or pinch hit -- at this point, his words saying he will don't mean much to me.

    But it is still impossible for me to ignore 0-12 from Dozier, Mauer and Willingham.

  6. #25
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeypaws View Post
    Rendered all the more bizarre when you consider Florimon is 3 for 9 lifetime vs. Sale, whereas Escobar had never faced him.
    Especially with how heavily Gardy relies on matchup data. It was a head scratcher.

    I'd also ask...why not Bartlett? If he's supposed to be the veteran guy who knows how to hit in situations and who can play SS......why wasn't it him?

  7. #26
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Gardy is that you?

    Of course we could blame ever single loss on the players. Doesn't change Gardy's job which is to get the most out of them and give his team the best chance to win games.
    Thats been a concern, that the front office is in possession of performance data that doesn't get communicated to the players on the field. Did we finally shift on Dunn yesterday?

  8. #27
    Senior Member All-Star Boom Boom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    Did we finally shift on Dunn yesterday?
    It's probably not necessary anymore. He hasn't been the same since he split with Kix Brooks.

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  10. #28
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    I'd more resemble Carol than Gardy . But no, I don't blame all of the losses on the players and I thought your original question was a good one. I'm willing to wait and see if Gardenhire ever actually uses Pinto to DH or pinch hit -- at this point, his words saying he will don't mean much to me.But it is still impossible for me to ignore 0-12 from Dozier, Mauer and Willingham.
    I guess I'd counter with, Gardy doesnt have any control over those three going 0-12. He does have control over who comes to the plate in that specific AB.My guess is he was saving Pinto for a situation where he represented the tying run. Defensible IMO, made somewhat questionable by the lack of better bench options.
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  12. #29
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willihammer View Post
    Recap:

    Twins were behind 2-5. Due up were Hicks and Florimon for their 3rd PA against Sale, then Dozier for his 4th.

    Hicks roped a double, then Gardy pulled Florimon back and put in Escobar to PH. (Sale remained in the game).

    On the bench at this point were: Pinto, Bartlett, and Kubel.

    ???

    edit: Down 2-5 at the time, not 3-5
    I did a double-take when Escobar was announced and then remembered "Oh that's right. Ron Gardenhire is the manager."

    Harrumph. Not the best move possible, that's for sure.

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  14. #30
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibs View Post
    I think he should have left Florimon in there. He is capable of moving a runner over
    Except that moving the runner over didn't matter one bit. Down three runs, the team needed baserunners.

  15. #31
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    But it is still impossible for me to ignore 0-12 from Dozier, Mauer and Willingham.
    That's going to happen on a fairly regular basis, which is why three guys can't carry a lineup. This offense needs at least 2-3 more capable bats than they currently have on the roster.

  16. #32
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    What I think is that if Pinto is not going to catch most of the games, is not going to DH, and is not even going to be used as a pinch hitter, then he needs to be in AAA playing every day.

  17. #33
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    I'm not a big Gardy fan but no amount of managing is going to overcome your best hitters being totally absent. With a short bench, I'm sure he didn't want to burn two players with one move. It really does beg the question: what exactly is Bartlett going to do this year?

    Of all the things that happened yesterday, the most frustrating was Plouffe's AB in the ninth. Takes a fastball right down the middle for strike one, waves at a slider he couldn't have hit with a rake for strike two and takes a feeble swing at a splitter at his ankles for strike three.

  18. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    What I think is that if Pinto is not going to catch most of the games, is not going to DH, and is not even going to be used as a pinch hitter, then he needs to be in AAA playing every day.
    This. This again. For whatever reason, its seems like Gardy got his way on some of the roster decisions and they just don't make sense.

  19. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
    With a short bench, I'm sure he didn't want to burn two players with one move.
    Of course it's not ideal to have to burn 2 players with 1 move, but I think that 'saving' bench players for a situation that is unlikely to come up is silly. Same with saving your best relief pitcher for a situation that might never come up, or a situation that most any pitcher in the league should be able to handle (3 outs, nobody on base, 3 run lead).

  20. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
    I'm not a big Gardy fan but no amount of managing is going to overcome your best hitters being totally absent. With a short bench, I'm sure he didn't want to burn two players with one move.
    Why even burn one player, when it is at best a lateral move?

    My sense is that Gardy knew he should be pinch hitting for Florimon late in a close game, which is generally sound, but then really didn't bother to re-analyze the problem after removing his top two bench bats from consideration.

  21. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post
    This is an indictment on Florimon.

    If he's such a terrible hitter that he needs to be sac bunting in the third... and then is pinch-hit for by Escobar... he shouldn't be in the lineup at all.
    Its an indictment on Gardenhire wasting Pinto's bat on the bench to guard against the highly improbable scenerio of Suzuki getting hurt. Herrmann should have made the team over any of these three; kubel, bartlett, escobar.

  22. #38
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    It was the full bench. 4 players. It is not going to get better than that.

    The Twins will need to pinch hit for Florimon this year. The best batter on the bench is likely Kubel, Colabello or Pinto. Bat them and pinch run Escobar if they get on. No reason to save them when it is the 8th inning and the Twins are losing. Burn to players and give the team the best chance to win the game.

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  24. #39
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    I would have used Pinto for Florimon in that situation. Escobar as pinch runner if Pinto reaches.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

  25. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    It was the full bench. 4 players. It is not going to get better than that.

    The Twins will need to pinch hit for Florimon this year. The best batter on the bench is likely Kubel, Colabello or Pinto. Bat them and pinch run Escobar if they get on. No reason to save them when it is the 8th inning and the Twins are losing. Burn to players and give the team the best chance to win the game.
    Well, I agree with you but Kubel wasn't an option against Sale and Bartlett wasn't an option because he can't hit. So, its Pinto (which I would have gone with but Gardy won't) or Escobar. I do agree with Spy that Escobar, while a better hitter than Florimon, isn't really the kind of guy you are looking for to provide a big hit late in a game. Its almost a nothing move which brings us back to the real problem and that is the construction of the bench.

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