Minnesota Twins News & Rumors Forum
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 35 of 35

Thread: Will possible Catcher of the future, ever play again?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    245
    Like
    0
    Liked 51 Times in 26 Posts
    Here's the problem with the start 1/3rd and DH the rest in the big leagues theory: he needs the most work behind the plate and the only way he gets better at that aspect is to PLAY. Talking about it with Suzuki, Steinbach, Mauer has very little value - that's what coaches are for. I'm generally OK with Gardy but the thing that drives me nuts is that, once he gets an idea in his head, whether it is about a player or a theory, he will not change his mind. If it is left up to Gardy, Pinto will stay in the big leagues to help win an extra game or two while playing twice a week.

  2. #22
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,134
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,608 Times in 835 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
    Here's the problem with the start 1/3rd and DH the rest in the big leagues theory: he needs the most work behind the plate and the only way he gets better at that aspect is to PLAY. Talking about it with Suzuki, Steinbach, Mauer has very little value - that's what coaches are for.
    The thing is that he should still get roughly 50 games behind the plate as the backup catcher... At that point, it becomes a question of value per inning. What's better for his development? 50 games with Mauer, Suzuki, and Steinbach watching or 90 games in Rochester?

    Personally, I think he'd learn more in 50 Minnesota games than 90 MiLB games, doubly so if you factor in that he would be facing top-tier pitching and learning how to hit instead of just teeing off on bad AAA pitching.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    245
    Like
    0
    Liked 51 Times in 26 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    The thing is that he should still get roughly 50 games behind the plate as the backup catcher... At that point, it becomes a question of value per inning. What's better for his development? 50 games with Mauer, Suzuki, and Steinbach watching or 90 games in Rochester?

    Personally, I think he'd learn more in 50 Minnesota games than 90 MiLB games, doubly so if you factor in that he would be facing top-tier pitching and learning how to hit instead of just teeing off on bad AAA pitching.
    90 games in Rochester (actually it would probably be 100). Part of our difference in opinion is that I don't perceive the influence of Mauer et al to be that valuable. The most valuable learning experience a player can have is simply the opportunity to play alot, everyday, all the time. If he is absolutely raking in AAA, bring him up in July and start him in as many games as he can handle and let Suzuki sit. He simply has to play and where is less important that being behind the plate everyday (or as many days as he can handle).

  4. #24
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
    Posts
    8,134
    Twitter
    @rocketpig76
    Like
    49
    Liked 1,608 Times in 835 Posts
    Blog Entries
    6
    It's a fair opinion, I just happen to disagree. If played at DH twice a week and twice more at catcher, I think Pinto has more opportunity to grow as a MLB player.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Double-A
    Posts
    107
    Like
    50
    Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
    The dangers of small sample sizes:

    Suzuki, Hicks, Plouffe, and Kubel have looked very solid at the plate

    Mauer, Dozier, Willingham, and Florimon have looked horrendous.

    I don't think anyone would believe that trend will continue much longer. Some of the guys off to a hot start will revert back to their normal production and a few of the slow start guys will pick it up.

    Its interesting to see who comes out of the gate hot and who struggles but it really doesn't mean much until late June or July. We should know what's what after these guys get about 100-125 ABs.

  6. This user likes savvyspy's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    LaBombo (04-03-2014)

  7. #26
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
    Posts
    535
    Like
    42
    Liked 20 Times in 14 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    I am fine with Pintos role being the backup catcher and pinch hitter. Gardy can't be afraid to pinch hit Pinto as often as possible. If Zuke gets injuried Mauer can squat for 1-3 innings. And that may never happen. How often a season is an emergency catcher used? Barely ever.

  8. #27
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    2,693
    Like
    310
    Liked 220 Times in 140 Posts
    Maybe we should wait more than 2 games before we complain about Pinto's playing time?
    Last edited by gunnarthor; 04-03-2014 at 09:38 AM.

  9. These 2 users like gunnarthor's post and want to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    DJL44 (04-03-2014), thetank (04-03-2014)

  10. #28
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,868
    Like
    185
    Liked 673 Times in 381 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
    This. Send him to Rochester and let him play every day. Its pretty clear already that Gardy won't let him pinch hit or DH so put him somewhere he can be the regular catcher. Its crazy to have a 25 year old valuable prospect riding the pine.
    I think we're too well-trained by the Twins brass/mouthpieces into believing that "playing every day" is always superior to being on a big league roster.

    I don't think that's the issue here, Pinto can and should be learning just as much now as he could in AAA. The biggest issue with this 2/3 split right now (which I'm 100% behind for the beginning of the year) is Gardy's inexplicable stance about losing the DH and not pinch hitting him more often.

  11. #29
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    245
    Like
    0
    Liked 51 Times in 26 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I think we're too well-trained by the Twins brass/mouthpieces into believing that "playing every day" is always superior to being on a big league roster.

    I don't think that's the issue here, Pinto can and should be learning just as much now as he could in AAA. The biggest issue with this 2/3 split right now (which I'm 100% behind for the beginning of the year) is Gardy's inexplicable stance about losing the DH and not pinch hitting him more often.
    I'm not aware that the Twins brass espouses the playing every day theory and that is not why I believe in it. I believe in it because I've seen this aspect in all sports. Gardy isn't going to pinch hit him or DH him. We don't like this but that is the reality. Given that, it just makes more sense for Pinto's development to play more and that is in AAA. Hell, I'd be fine starting Pinto with the big club and sitting Suzuki, but that's not going to happen either.

  12. #30
    Senior Member Triple-A
    Posts
    268
    Like
    15
    Liked 40 Times in 26 Posts
    I'm sure if you ask Pinto he'd rather be in the big leagues. He'll get playing time. He can improve his defense during practice. If he plays well he'll earn more playing time. If they wanted him working on his defense as much as possible it makes you question why he was a minor league DH 50 games each of the past two years.

    Colabello is going to pinch hit much more often than Pinto. With 12 pitchers they don't have a really deep bench.

  13. #31
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
    Posts
    4,868
    Like
    185
    Liked 673 Times in 381 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
    I'm not aware that the Twins brass espouses the playing every day theory and that is not why I believe in it. I believe in it because I've seen this aspect in all sports. Gardy isn't going to pinch hit him or DH him. We don't like this but that is the reality. Given that, it just makes more sense for Pinto's development to play more and that is in AAA. Hell, I'd be fine starting Pinto with the big club and sitting Suzuki, but that's not going to happen either.
    The Twins say it virtually every time they send a prospect down: "We didn't want to keep him up here if he wasn't going to play every day." I think, in my lifetime as a Twins fan, I've heard that phrase close to a billion times.

    I do agree, however, with your take about Gardy's approach being a reality. That's the sticky part for me where I could teeter either way.

  14. #32
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,689
    Like
    3
    Liked 338 Times in 214 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by gunnarthor View Post
    Maybe we should wait more than 2 games before we complain about Pinto's playing time?
    This is true (and I probably wouldn't have started this thread yet, certainly not with its current title!). But consider the following:

    - Twins broadcasters previously suggested the split would be 2/3 Suzuki, 1/3 Pinto (which is basically starter-backup for catchers, not really a split at all)
    - the first series is going exactly according to that "split"
    - we have started 3 other guys at DH already, not even counting Colabello, suggesting very limited DH opportunities for Pinto even if Gardy was willing
    - Gardy has also passed on very obvious Pinto PH opportunities in both games so far

    This all suggests that what we have seen of Pinto's usage thus far isn't a function of small sample; this looks like "the plan" for the time being, which is a notable confirmation of previous suspicions and worthy of discussion, I think.

  15. #33
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,165
    Like
    103
    Liked 278 Times in 201 Posts
    Blog Entries
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I'm ok with the playing time share being 2/3 Suzuki. I'm just hoping it stays around that percentage early on and transitioning to a flip of that by the end of the year.
    I agree. Pinto should catch 2/5 and DH 1/5. We don't really know until we get a few rotations. They may just be lining up pitcher-catcher combo's.

  16. #34
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
    Posts
    6,621
    Like
    3,697
    Liked 3,188 Times in 1,365 Posts
    I wonder if part of the reason Suzuki signed with the Twins was due to playing time promises. I'm sure he would have had multiple teams more than willing to give him similar money to be the backup, perhaps he chose the Twins for playing time reasons.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  17. #35
    Senior Member All-Star
    Posts
    1,689
    Like
    3
    Liked 338 Times in 214 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by DJL44 View Post
    I'm sure if you ask Pinto he'd rather be in the big leagues. He'll get playing time. He can improve his defense during practice. If he plays well he'll earn more playing time. If they wanted him working on his defense as much as possible it makes you question why he was a minor league DH 50 games each of the past two years.
    Pinto's (or any player's) preference for the majors vs AAA has no bearing on the best course for his development.

    And I agree that him being a MLB backup now might be better than being the AAA starter, but that doesn't mean it is optimal either. He should probably be more than a backup at the MLB level, either through more starts at C or DH. Hopefully the Twins plan to transition to this soon, but I wonder what benefit is there to delay that arrangement at all? I mean, a 50-50 split means Pinto has ~13 games on the bench per month, as opposed to ~18 if he's the backup. Are those extra 5 games per month sitting next to Steinbach really providing a lot of marginal value over the first 13?

    And I will add that minor league catchers rarely take on a full load, I think, especially if they are fairly well-regarded prospects. It appears Mauer had 30-35 games at 1B/DH in his full minor league seasons.

    (Plus, it appears that in 2013 Pinto had a couple weeks at AA where he didn't catch at all, suggesting minor injury, and in 2012 he caught very little after his late season promotion to AA where Hermann was already starting and they were making a late season playoff push, I think.)

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
©2014 TwinsCentric, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Interested in advertising with Twins Daily? Click here.