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Thread: The Football thread (saacaaar)

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    The Football thread (saacaaar)

    Hi all,

    I'm a newbie here, tuning in mainly for the news and views on the Twins as they are now officially my adopted team. I'm still on a steep learning curve on the great sport of baseball so please bear with me. Its a lot to take in.

    But as an englishman posting from England, football is my first love (and I'm talking soccerism here, not NFL, although I watch that too). Brighton and Hove Albion FC is my team and I'm a season ticket holder there, but I also have many, many football clubs over here who I openly despise for a bewildering variety of reasons which often boil down to bitterness, resentment, jealousy or moral outrage.

    Anyhoo, if you have any mild interest in British soccerball (or "football" as we call it), and have any questions about it, then feel free to air them here and I will do my best to answer them *

    * any opinion expressed will likely be deeply skewed by the authors own irrational and entirely unreasonable views on opposition teams, players, supporters and in some cases their mascots.

  2. This user likes Easy 10's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:

    steve (04-08-2014)

  3. #2
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    A return to the Premier League in the cards for the Gulls anytime soon?

    Managing LFC in FIFA 14 on my son's Xbox is my guilty pleasure these days, I'm addicted.

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    Go Man U!!!!!

  5. #4
    I like everything about soccer, except the soccer. I like the excitement of the crowds, the controversies, the passion, the blatant diving. The WAGS.

    In supposedly socialist Europe, soccer is a true meritocracy. There is promotion and relegation. Success is rewarded, failure is punished.

    There is no draft, no salary cap. There is no limit to the size of your team, only how many you can dress for a game.

    There is no competitive balance. The good teams are much better than the poor teams.

    The actual games I fast forward through until there is a goal. I can only imagine what a soccer fan, used to continuous action, thinks while watching a baseball game. Ten men standing around, usually doing nothing. For three hours.

    Of course, to a baseball fan, there is more to it than that. There are subtleties, and the anticipation of impending action.

    The one thing I will never understand is MLS. Who wants to watch a league of Americans play soccer, might as well have a league of Americans play hockey.
    Sold or not, empty seats behind homeplate are an eyesore and an embarrassment.

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    [edit]
    duplicate post. Ugg.
    Last edited by Easy 10; 04-09-2014 at 04:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    A return to the Premier League in the cards for the Gulls anytime soon?

    Managing LFC in FIFA 14 on my son's Xbox is my guilty pleasure these days, I'm addicted.
    Well, 5 games to go this season and we're just 2 points outside the Promotion Playoffs, so there's a chance, but only a slim one. We've just got to try and finish 6th and then take it from there. MaHOOsive win last night, 4-1 at Leicester (who are already promoted to the Premier League), so thats kept us in the hunt, but we've got to follow that up with, I reckon, at least 3 more wins out of the 5 remaining games, maybe even 4. Starting Saturday at the Amex v Charlton Athletic...

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    I like everything about soccer, except the soccer. I like the excitement of the crowds, the controversies, the passion, the blatant diving. The WAGS.

    In supposedly socialist Europe, soccer is a true meritocracy. There is promotion and relegation. Success is rewarded, failure is punished.

    There is no draft, no salary cap. There is no limit to the size of your team, only how many you can dress for a game.

    There is no competitive balance. The good teams are much better than the poor teams.

    The actual games I fast forward through until there is a goal. I can only imagine what a soccer fan, used to continuous action, thinks while watching a baseball game. Ten men standing around, usually doing nothing. For three hours.

    Of course, to a baseball fan, there is more to it than that. There are subtleties, and the anticipation of impending action.

    The one thing I will never understand is MLS. Who wants to watch a league of Americans play soccer, might as well have a league of Americans play hockey.

    You list a lot of the things I love AND hate about the game there Steve ! But you're right, put it all together and its an intoxicating mix.

    The diving just drives me nuts, when a grown man throws himself to the floor, rolling aroujnd, clutching his ankle or some other appendage, simulating an injury just to win a free kick / penalty / get the other guy sent off. Then 10 seconds later he's up and running around like a 2 year old, as if nothing happened. One second he's at deaths door, the next...hey, he's ok !! Maddening. But it all adds to the controversy and whips the crowd up.

    Promotion / relegation realy adds an edge to proceedings. Getting relegated down a division is a miserable experience (the bottom 3 teams in each 24-team division goes down a league). Thats one thing I can't get my head around in baseball and NFL. Unless you're near the top of the standings or chasing playoffs, theres really very little to actually play for without that lurking fear of relegation being there. In football, avoiding relegation is sometimes celebrated as wildly as winning the league or getting promoted, it means THAT much. The relief is so intense at avoiding the despair of going down a league.

    I've never been to a baseball game, but having watched it on TV, the atmosphere seems a lot more...relaxed. Sedate even. Football crowds get a lot more involved. We like to chant songs, often with obscene and/or insulting lyrics at the players, or at the referee, or at the oppositon fans who are always housed in their own part of the stadium, totally separated from the home fans. This makes the game a very "tribal" experience. Its US vs THEM, and there they all are, in that corner of our ground, on our patch, trying to beat OUR team. How dare they. So it goes way beyond boo-ing.

    When a goal is scored...its bedlam. We football fans go absolutely bonkers, leaping around and screaming "YYYYEEEESSSS" at the top of our voices. This is because (unlike, say, basketball), there is a true rarity value to a goal. Scoring is hard ! There may only be one goal to celebrate. There may be NO goals to celebrate, so when your team scores, its such a massive release, a huge rush. Then once the euphoria has died down, the fans will often turn their attention to the glum set of supporters who's team has just conceded the goal, and begin the time-honoured gloating chant:

    You're not singing
    You're not singing
    You're not singing any more
    You're not sing-ing aaaany more


    To which they will reply...

    Sing when you're winning
    You only sing when you're winning
    Sing when you're wiiin-ning
    You only sing when you're winning


    Childish ? Unsporting ? You bet. But god I love it. Gosh there's about a million different chants for different situations.
    Sorry to waffle on, but I do find the different cultures in our sports and our fans endlessly fascinating. I could bang on about this all day

    I'd best get some work done though I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    Go Man U!!!!!
    Oh, and I can't let this pass with a boooo

    so

    BOOOOOOO !!

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Easy 10 View Post
    I've never been to a baseball game, but having watched it on TV, the atmosphere seems a lot more...relaxed. Sedate even.

    Oftentimes baseball is sedate. Occasionally, it is not.



    Your favorite team, in a very good game. They've built statues to two of the men playing here.
    Sold or not, empty seats behind homeplate are an eyesore and an embarrassment.

  11. #10
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownTwinsFan View Post
    Go Man U!!!!!

    Go to he** maybe, I'd be alright with that.

  12. #11
    OK Easy 10, here's a question.

    What movies about association football can you recommend?

    I've seen two:

    Bend it Like Beckham, and Green Street Hooligans.

    There's lots of movies about baseball. I'd like to see more about soccer.
    Sold or not, empty seats behind homeplate are an eyesore and an embarrassment.

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    Forza Juve!

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    "There's only one Phillipe Coutino, one Phillipe Coutino"!!

    Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpoooool!!!!!

    Liverpool 3- Man City 2!!!

    Skrtel is a beast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    OK Easy 10, here's a question.

    What movies about association football can you recommend?

    I've seen two:

    Bend it Like Beckham, and Green Street Hooligans.

    There's lots of movies about baseball. I'd like to see more about soccer.
    Well, soccer is notoriously difficult to choreograph, so you'll never get a "decent" soccer movie that looks in any way convicing in terms of whats happening on the field of play. So its got to be all about the drama off the field.

    Bend It Like Beckham is pretty poor, none of the football scenes are in the least bit convincing. And with all due respect, girls football isn't exactly a rich tapestry to weave a story from anyway, even if you do hang our "pin up boys" name in the title. Green Street is ok-ish as an off-field hooligan drama, but not really a very accurate repesrentation. Hobbits at Upton Park ? Mmmnah.

    Probably my fave football movie is one called The Damned United, based on an excellent novel by David Peace. Its set in the early-1970's when the legendary (here at least) Brian Clough took over as manager of "dirty" Leeds United, for 44 days, before effectively being forced out by a players revolt. True story, garnished a little for the silver screen, but the performances and the whole look of the film is top notch. It perfectly captures the dour grim darkess of 1970's northern England.

    It helps if you *know* the main characters for real of course (Clough the talented, charismatic, brash, outspoken young upstart manager, Don Revie as the curmudgeonly old former Leeds Utd boss) but the actors do fantastic renditions of them both, and their intense rivalry really brings the film to life.

    Check out the real Clough / Revie here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJHvg5c7vPE

    This is legendary stuff over here, and it makes for a terrific film.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twinsnorth49 View Post
    "There's only one Phillipe Coutino, one Phillipe Coutino"!!

    Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpoooool!!!!!

    Liverpool 3- Man City 2!!!

    Skrtel is a beast.
    One hell of a match, although I happen to think Skrtel is one of the dirtiest defenders in the PL. He gets away with MURDER in the box, pushing, pulling and grabbing opposition players all over the place. He's the only guy I see who seems to be trying to swap shirts with another player before the end of the game. If the referees were brave enough he'd be conceding 3 penalties a game easily !

    But anyway. I had a cheeky little treble. Liverpool to beat Man City, Chelsea to beat Swansea, and Twins to beat the Royals, odds of around 9/1.

    The first two came in this afternoon, so I watched my At Bat app tonight with my fist in my mouth hoping for the Twins to get that win and bring home the bacon, and they didn't let me down

    God bless Correia

  17. #16
    Probably my fave football movie is one called The Damned United, based on an excellent novel by David Peace. Its set in the early-1970's when the legendary (here at least) Brian Clough took over as manager of "dirty" Leeds United, for 44 days, before effectively being forced out by a players revolt. True story, garnished a little for the silver screen, but the performances and the whole look of the film is top notch. It perfectly captures the dour grim darkess of 1970's northern England.
    Thanks for this recommendation, just wish Netflix on demand would show it.
    Sold or not, empty seats behind homeplate are an eyesore and an embarrassment.

  18. #17
    The news of the day is that David Moyes, the replacement for Sir Alex Ferguson, is out as manager of Manchester United.

    1.) Is Manu out of Champions League next year, and also out of Euro League?

    2.) Was Moyes put into an impossible situation?

    3.) To what degree are the American owners of Manu responsible for this failure?

    4.) How much schadenfreude is permitted? Some, a lot, or a whole lot?
    Sold or not, empty seats behind homeplate are an eyesore and an embarrassment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    The news of the day is that David Moyes, the replacement for Sir Alex Ferguson, is out as manager of Manchester United.

    1.) Is Manu out of Champions League next year, and also out of Euro League?
    The Europa League is for clubs finishing 5th, and they might still manage 5th. But this is very much the poor relation to the Champions League - most clubs don't even take it very seriously, and field under-strength teams in it as its played (rather inconveniently) on Thursday nights. Spending 7 hours on a plane jetting across Europe to a Siberian coalmine for a Thursday night fixture against some team hardly anyone has heard of is not ideal preperation, when you have to get back to England for a proper game at the weekend.

    But yes, Manchester United have failed to qualify for next seasons Champions League. Only the top 4 teams in the Premier League qualify from England, and sadly (hilariously), 4th place is now beyond them. This is the first time since 1995 they have failed to qualify for the competition. Quite apart from the catastrophic drop in income they will suffer (primarily TV money), this will also make it much tougher to recruit top-class players to the club, as top-class players tend to want to play for the clubs who are involved in what is considered THE premiére competition in Europe. Uniteds squad is in urgent need of a major overhaul this summer to become competative again, and that will not be easy with no Champions League on the agenda for the forseeable.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    2.) Was Moyes put into an impossible situation?
    Impossible ? No. Difficult ? Certainly. Moyes inherited a team which was reigning Champions when Sir Alex Ferguson retired last year, and its widely considered that Fergie performed miracles in making champions out of what was, essentially, a fairly average squad, with only one or two genuinely world class players. The extent of his genius has now become apparent, as Moyes has failed miserably to get even close to defending that title with what is largely the same group of players plus a couple of his own (very expensive) additions. They currently sit 7th in the table, a seismic 23 points behind current leaders Liverpool, and are well on course to becoming the worst defending Champions in Premier League history.

    My opinion is that Moyes made it difficult for himself from the start by binning the entire United backroom staff on his arrival, and bringing in his own backroom team from Everton, severing any semblance of continuity. So players at United who were accustomed to success were now being led by a manager and coaching staff who had won nothing. And boy, does it show.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    3.) To what degree are the American owners of Manu responsible for this failure?
    For this failure specifically ? Very little. Man U had continued with their unprecedented success during the Glazers stewardship, thanks largely to letting Ferguson get on with his job and backing him in the transfer market. Moyes was appointed his successor on Fergusons own recommendation when he retired, and was given some £70m to spend. The fact that he's made an almighty great horlicks of the job cannot be laid at the Glazers door.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    4.) How much schadenfreude is permitted? Some, a lot, or a whole lot?
    Oh, a whole lot. A truckload. A FLEET of trucks, delivering entire shipping containers stuffed full of schadenfreude, to be delivered around England and the world to every plastic Man U fan who ever donned that ubiquitous red shirt, sat their fat arse on a barstool in front of the TV, and basked in the (seemingly endless) reflected glory of Manchester United PLC from afar, whilst looking down their noses at fans of apparently less distinguished or successful clubs. But you know what ? Those same fans will probably just go and buy a Liverpool / Man City / Chelsea * shirt for next season.

    Lovely stuff.

    * Delete as applicable according to whoever wins the Premier League.
    Last edited by Easy 10; 04-22-2014 at 09:38 AM.

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    Quite an interesting article here about the apparent growing in popularity of football in the USA

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/fa...les.html?_r=1#

  21. #20
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    Oh, a whole lot. A truckload. A FLEET of trucks, delivering entire shipping containers stuffed full of schadenfreude, to be delivered around England and the world to every plastic Man U fan who ever donned that ubiquitous red shirt, sat their fat arse on a barstool in front of the TV, and basked in the (seemingly endless) reflected glory of Manchester United PLC from afar, whilst looking down their noses at fans of apparently less distinguished or successful clubs. But you know what ? Those same fans will probably just go and buy a Liverpool shirt for next season
    LOL!!! This, This and this, well said! The stench of failure looks good on them and their insufferable fans, many of which have probably never watched an entire football match in their lives. Moyes should have never left Everton, getting his just desserts I say.

    Yes, an influx of Liverpool jerseys and scarves is seemingly inevitable with the bandwagon crowd, all proclaiming to be lifers I'm sure, waxing poetically about Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley from their Google fandom.

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