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Thread: Article: Samuel Deduno and Strange Decisions

  1. #21
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    Nick - I agreed with everything you said except for the remark about Presley. Good riddance to that no-hit AAAA player. Now that he's healthy again, Mastroianni is a much better reserve OF due to his offense.

  2. #22
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    I think the argument for Deduno in the bullpen has more to do with durability then stuff. I prefer to watch him start but if he is going to be hurt it makes sense to minimize that risk with him in the pen and used as the 6th starter.

  3. #23
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    Nick: Great parallel with Bartlett! It definitely seems like the Twins are playing more guys out of position now, which could be an interesting strategy to get opportunities and assess talent, but it's often coming across as inexplicable (and often without any apparent upside).

    Wasn't this the knock on Deduno before? Two other organizations let him go rather than give him a good look in the back of their pens, and I swear the Twins (or at least posters on this board) have made this point in discussing plans for Deduno over the past two seasons.

    That said, Deduno's in a tricky spot, as he's not nearly reliable enough to guarantee a starting spot, and we needed to acquire more starters in the offseason anyway. Should Deduno and Pelfrey have competed (or should currently be competing) for a spot? Some have thought Pelf might improve out of the pen. Correia's got pen experience. (Hughes too, for that matter.) If these trends continue for the next month or so, it could get interesting (although it will be painful to watch in the meantime!).

  4. #24
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    I'm in the minority here, but glad we signed Pelf. Now Nolasco is a different story. He looks like he's just getting in his 4 innings and collecting a paycheck. If he starts off with another 4 starts like he's had, he's gotta go.

  5. #25
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    My sense is they put him in the bullpen to save his arm. A couple of more starts like we've had in the Oakland series and they will not worry so much about his arm.

    I look forward to the day when Deduno moves into the rotation in favor of Correia. What to do with the latter is less important than improving the team.

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  7. #26
    Twins News Team All-Star TheLeviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    I look forward to the day when Deduno moves into the rotation in favor of Correia. What to do with the latter is less important than improving the team.
    I'm glad to see you're coming around to my offseason gripe about finding a hole for Correia to fall into.

  8. #27
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    The moves made by this front office in the off-season look to be the worst we've seen from the Twins for quite some time. How you start the season without enough outfielders, the easiest position in the majors to fill, is incredible. Is there any sense whatsoever that outfield defense matters? It's hard to comprehend how they are where they are with no credible options for the corner outfield spots.

    How can you go into the year with no shortstop? Bartlett has been done for over two year, would any other organization even have considered him as an option. Florimon had a short spring training following a poor year last year. That's what you go with for the key defensive position on your team?

    The pitchers signed were rejects by their prior organizations and if they don't improve will have eaten a substantial amount of budget for the next 3-4 years. Nolasco for 4 years? Really?! Hughes for 3 years? Hughes has gotten simply pummeled since 2012 and now he is on the books until 2016. These appear to be awful, awful choices along the lines of Nishioki.

    If this is what it looks like a month or so into the season, it's time for the Twins to break with the past and let the entire front office go. The decisions they made this year in building a team look absolutely pathetic.
    Last edited by rhal; 04-11-2014 at 11:28 AM.

  9. #28
    Nice article Nick, nailed it.

    I have no clue how the staff has come to any of it's conclusions with Deduno. Everything they have done with him this year seems counter intuitive.

  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halsey Hall View Post
    Now Nolasco is a different story. He looks like he's just getting in his 4 innings and collecting a paycheck. If he starts off with another 4 starts like he's had, he's gotta go.
    Halsey: go where, exactly?

  11. #30
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    You won't find a bigger supporter of Deduno than I.

    Wrong or right... I do believe that Deduno would be our top starter if in the rotation.

    With that said... I'm OK with the current situation... Pitchers get hurt and you need numbers... Placing Deduno in the pen for the time being isn't an issue with me right now... Even if I feel that Deduno is our best starter. He's coming off an injury... You just signed 3 FA's... Letting Deduno dip his foot into the water and observing before diving straight in... Can be somewhat justified.

    On Bartlett... I admit complete confusion and I can't justify it in my head. I've tried because I trust the many baseball professionals who make these decisions... I try to imagine why with benefit of doubt... But... I can't... I just can't...

    It's the 25th spot on the roster so it isnt a life or death move but... In the context of this team... After witnessing The 2013 performance of CF... How you leave that spot complete shallow attempting to shoehorn in an extra backup infielder with no experience at the position to play it is beyond my logic.

    I believe in Hicks... Maybe I believe now... but for sure... Eventually I believe!!! But what if 2014 Hicks ends up like 2013 Hicks... What if Hicks rips a tendon and is shut down for the year. Now what do you do.

    The CF depth chart is Mastro or rushing Buxton. Or Bartlett? Escobar?

    That my friends is Thin!!! Razor Thin!!! And we know what Thin feels like because we were CF thin in 2013 and it sucked to be thin.

    It wasn't addressed or corrected and I can't get my head around it.

    So... Let me go back to Bonofacio... Actual CF experience... Actual 3B experience... SS experience... 2B experience... Actual... You know... You know... utility experience!!! The Twins pass and instead try to teach Bartlett to become what Bonofacio already is...

    Leadoff experience... And the Twins don't have a legit leadoff guy... Actual... Honest to god... Speed... Top ten MLB speed while the Twins are amongst the slowest in baseball if not the slowest in baseball. Hasn't been out of baseball and younger!!!

    The only explanation that I can come up with and I worked real hard for this explanation.

    Someone liked Bartlett... Someone thought that Bartlett was a... Guy who could change chemistry or something... Someone convinced Bartlett that he would make the club if he signed a minor league deal... Someone kept that promise to Bartlett because he didn't earn the job in ST.... He had to have the job going into ST... Didn't he?

    Mastro is sent down and Parm is exposed to waivers to make room for Bartlett.

    Its the 25th spot... I'm not losing sleep but why? I'd like to know why? And.. More importantly... I'd like to know who the inside advocate was?
    Last edited by Riverbrian; 04-11-2014 at 01:10 PM.
    A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

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  13. #31
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    The Twins, Gardy, Ryan, they don't have to make sense. They are a private baseball club. They answer to no one, though, in theory, fans can go to see the team or not and that provides valuable feedback. I believe they are hearing it now, but it's too late.

    The Bartlett and Kubel thing, someone thought that nostalgia for the glory days of recent Twins history would be a way to generate interest. The good old days when we could win a weak Central Division by pounding KC and Cleveland series after series, and then of course, get swept by the Yankees in the playoffs. That's what the FO is pining for, but, alas, so much has changed. They actually need a rotation, some hitters -- and now the other teams are not doormats anymore. The Twins business model has passed them by and there is no easy way to get back on track -- in terms of players, or payroll, or attendance, or even self-esteem.

    Folks, we are looking into the abyss and it is a long way down, and dark.

  14. #32
    Senior Member Double-A troyhobbs's Avatar
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    Maybe if he'd lob in a few more watermelons per inning (pitch to contact) he could make it into the good ol boys club. It's like the plan the past 3 seasons has been to wait for the future and hope our scrubs magically get really good at baseball. Bill Smith was not much of a talent assessor but at least he tried a few things (not a Bill Smith endorsement). Target Field is great but I have no interest to go watch the bums they've trotted out there the past few years. When the young guys start rolling in here it'd be nice if there were at least a few established veterans on the team so the kids could be more supplemental than having to carry the entire load. Obviously there'll be Mauer, but he's not too far away from hitting the down side of his career (during which I'm sure he'll still be plenty adequate), then will the FO be willing to pony up the dough to keep the young talent around long enough to reach their potential or will they continue to be a glorified farm system for the East and Westcoast markets?

  15. #33
    The King In The North All-Star Nick Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badsmerf View Post
    Deduno is garbage. The Twins know it, the rest of the MLB knows it.
    Based on what, exactly? He's had almost nothing but success since coming over to this organization.

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  17. #34
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLeviathan View Post
    I'm glad to see you're coming around to my offseason gripe about finding a hole for Correia to fall into.
    Oh, I was with you then, I just didn't think it was the right time.

    The time is coming soon. I suspect he Twins will keep it this way until they have to make a move to save face. It can't come soon enough for my taste.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  18. #35
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    Great article- but then I am biased in his favor... anyway, thanks for pushing the issue!
    Stuff-wise, I think there can be little doubt that Deduno has the best on the staff.

    The $64,000 question is: control. Can he ever find it? If so, how?
    To throw some red meat out there- can Rick Anderson give him the tutelage he needs?

    I haven't seen his heat maps or situational analysis... maybe a future piece?
    Keep up the good work.

  19. #36
    I agree Deduno should be starting (maybe instead of Nolasco ). Anyway, as long as he's in the BP I just hope they have made a note NOT to put him in in extra innings situations.

  20. #37
    Senior Member All-Star Shane Wahl's Avatar
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    What are they really going to do with their 2 year, $11 million man?

  21. #38
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    By the way, when people say there is no downside to signing people to big contracts for multiple years, they rarely have these situations in mind. They say, "you can always trade them." I was all for trading Correia in the offseason. So were the Twins, according to rumors. No takers, despite the horrible state of pitching in baseball. If he doesn't improve, you eat his $5 million. Ditto for Pelfrey ($11 Million). Ditto for Hughes ($22 Million). Ditto for Nolasco ($44 million). (I might have my figures a bit off, but I like the progression.)

    I don't think any of those guys will continue to suck. But can we dispense with the talk about zero risk for signing free agents?
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  22. #39
    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Not sure that Deduno has earned anything, but pretty sure that he was not the best Twins' SP last season (unless your measuring stick is ERA and W-L.) My biggest issues with him are durability and control. As far as this goes:

    He's certainly among the top five pitchers on the club in terms of stuff, and he's been on a heck of a run the last couple years, but he's being forced to sit around in the bullpen
    I don't think that being "among the top 5 in terms of stuff" (and let's assume that this is correct), warrants a starting job. One can make the same argument about Glenn Perkins, based on "top 5 stuff" (and actually his FB and slider are better than Deduno's top 2 pitches...) But we know what Perkins did as a starter.

    And, frankly, if the Twins have to use another starter for some reason, I'd rather see either Meyer or May than Deduno.
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  23. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by spycake View Post
    Halsey: go where, exactly?
    The pen is probably the only option.

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