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Thread: Setting the record straight on Eddie Rosario

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    Setting the record straight on Eddie Rosario

    With Dozier beginning to show that his power surge isnt a fluke & his defense looking pretty solid at 2B again. Many fans are writing Rosario or Dozier off as trade bait. I was pushing for a Dozier trade (pre suspension) & letting the team ride the kids to finally see who sticks & who needs to be replaced.

    Now that Dozier is showing he belongs on a MLB roster, maybe the SS is revisited but Im not sure he can stick there based on what scouts had said about his play there compared to 2B. Is it worth a shot in August/September? Why not I say. That said, if it doesn't work or isnt an option in the FO minds. Ruling out moving Rosario back to OF, specifically LF is not a mistake.

    #1) Team OF depth: The Twins have graduated &or traded Denard Span, Ben Revere, Aaron Hicks, & Oswaldo Arcia. The only 2 legitimate OF prospects other than Buxton in the system are Max Kepler & Adam Walker. Both whom are 21 and really only Kepler has any real shot of being a corner OF. With so much focus on front end SP's & middle infielders the OF depth is a real issue.

    #2) A Rosario/Buxton/Hicks OF with Arcia rotating as a DH & 4th OF has the potential to be one of the very best in the league defensively & still potent offensively. Can someone say "Soul Patrol II"!?! That speed & gap power would translate very well to spacious Target Field.

    #3) While Rosario would lose some value offensively moving to a corner OF spot, his defense also goes from potentially average at 2B to very good. Rosario has good range, arm strength, & instincts in OF.

    #4) Because he has been playing at minor league levels where he is much younger than the average league age, his power numbers are better than they initially appear. Look at these 4 players compare with minor league numbers & tell me why they should give up on Rosario as a LF.

    Player 1
    Age 22 - A+ : 131 G - 15 HR - 24 SB - 33 BB - 110 SO - .297/.340/.464/.804
    Age 23 - AA : 134 G - 21 HR - 18 SB - 37 BB - 134 SO - .299/.349/.508/.856
    Age 24 - AAA : 55 G - 4 HR - 9 SB - 9 BB - 36 SO - .298/.325/.444/.770

    Player 2
    Age 21 - A+ : 60 G - 0 HR - 22 SB - 12 BB - 59 SO - .315/.386/.432/.819
    Age 22 - AA : 129 G - 12 HR - 24 SB - 22 BB - 100 SO - .332/.370/.500/.870
    Age 23 - AAA : 100 G - 12 HR - 21 SB - 28 BB - 94 SO - .282/.347/.494/.870

    Player 3
    Age 22 - AA/AAA: 134 G - 7 HR - 75 BB - 79 SO - .267/.368/.407/.775
    Age 23 - AAA: 66 G - 9 HR - 55 BB - 38 SO - .303/.421/.487/.908

    Player 4
    Age 19 - Rk: 67 G - 21 HR - 17 SB - 16 BB - 28 SO - .294/.397/.670/1.068
    Age 20 - Rk/A- : 100 G - 13 HR - 11 SB - 32 BB - 71 SO - .315/.386/.432/.819
    Age 21 - A+/AA : 122 G - 10 HR - 10 SB - 38 BB - 96 SO - .302/.350/.460/.810

    P1: Jacque Jones - P2: Starling Marte - P3: Dustin Ackeley - P4: Eddie Rosario

    #5) The suspension, it hasn't been properly documented or real clear about what caused the suspension. The initial unverified reports had him 1st testing positive for a banned substance. He was quoted in a Puerto Rican article it was from taking a medication he prevuiously had used & didnt finish for his arm previously that was now expired. Then a short time after that it was stated he had tested positive for "a substance of abuse" a 2nd time & was now being suspended for 50 games. Whether that means he was using old pain killers & they felt it was in a manner of abuse or he tested for something else such as amphetamines or weed now one seems to know. With the arm injury obviously affecting him in the WBC maybe its a bit of a silver lining & this will allow him time to heal & really motivate him. As long as his numbers weren't PED inflated, Im not overly concerned about a kid in a new country making a mistake. The only issue is if there is another it's now a 100 game suspension.

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    Senior Member All-Star Thrylos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor0333 View Post
    #1) Team OF depth: The Twins have graduated &or traded Denard Span, Ben Revere, Aaron Hicks, & Oswaldo Arcia. The only 2 legitimate OF prospects other than Buxton in the system are Max Kepler & Adam Walker. Both whom are 21 and really only Kepler has any real shot of being a corner OF. With so much focus on front end SP's & middle infielders the OF depth is a real issue.
    This is not true.

    And with Hicks, Arcia and Buxton around, how many more OF's do you need?

    I count the following 5 OFs on my top 40 off-season Twins' prospects:

    Travis Harrison (13) Yes he is an OF now
    Max Kepler (16)
    Adam Walker (17)
    JD Williams (25)
    Zach Larson (36)

    The last 2 can play all OF positions and the top 3 are corner OFs. Also players like Amaurys Minier and Niko Goodrum might end up at the OF some time (because 3B will be taken for a while...)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor0333 View Post
    With Dozier beginning to show that his power surge isnt a fluke & his defense looking pretty solid at 2B again. Many fans are writing Rosario or Dozier off as trade bait. I was pushing for a Dozier trade (pre suspension) & letting the team ride the kids to finally see who sticks & who needs to be replaced.

    Now that Dozier is showing he belongs on a MLB roster, maybe the SS is revisited but Im not sure he can stick there based on what scouts had said about his play there compared to 2B. Is it worth a shot in August/September? Why not I say. That said, if it doesn't work or isnt an option in the FO minds. Ruling out moving Rosario back to OF, specifically LF is not a mistake.

    #1) Team OF depth: The Twins have graduated &or traded Denard Span, Ben Revere, Aaron Hicks, & Oswaldo Arcia. The only 2 legitimate OF prospects other than Buxton in the system are Max Kepler & Adam Walker. Both whom are 21 and really only Kepler has any real shot of being a corner OF. With so much focus on front end SP's & middle infielders the OF depth is a real issue.

    #2) A Rosario/Buxton/Hicks OF with Arcia rotating as a DH & 4th OF has the potential to be one of the very best in the league defensively & still potent offensively. Can someone say "Soul Patrol II"!?! That speed & gap power would translate very well to spacious Target Field.

    #3) While Rosario would lose some value offensively moving to a corner OF spot, his defense also goes from potentially average at 2B to very good. Rosario has good range, arm strength, & instincts in OF.

    #4) Because he has been playing at minor league levels where he is much younger than the average league age, his power numbers are better than they initially appear. Look at these 4 players compare with minor league numbers & tell me why they should give up on Rosario as a LF.

    Player 1
    Age 22 - A+ : 131 G - 15 HR - 24 SB - 33 BB - 110 SO - .297/.340/.464/.804
    Age 23 - AA : 134 G - 21 HR - 18 SB - 37 BB - 134 SO - .299/.349/.508/.856
    Age 24 - AAA : 55 G - 4 HR - 9 SB - 9 BB - 36 SO - .298/.325/.444/.770

    Player 2
    Age 21 - A+ : 60 G - 0 HR - 22 SB - 12 BB - 59 SO - .315/.386/.432/.819
    Age 22 - AA : 129 G - 12 HR - 24 SB - 22 BB - 100 SO - .332/.370/.500/.870
    Age 23 - AAA : 100 G - 12 HR - 21 SB - 28 BB - 94 SO - .282/.347/.494/.870

    Player 3
    Age 22 - AA/AAA: 134 G - 7 HR - 75 BB - 79 SO - .267/.368/.407/.775
    Age 23 - AAA: 66 G - 9 HR - 55 BB - 38 SO - .303/.421/.487/.908

    Player 4
    Age 19 - Rk: 67 G - 21 HR - 17 SB - 16 BB - 28 SO - .294/.397/.670/1.068
    Age 20 - Rk/A- : 100 G - 13 HR - 11 SB - 32 BB - 71 SO - .315/.386/.432/.819
    Age 21 - A+/AA : 122 G - 10 HR - 10 SB - 38 BB - 96 SO - .302/.350/.460/.810

    P1: Jacque Jones - P2: Starling Marte - P3: Dustin Ackeley - P4: Eddie Rosario

    #5) The suspension, it hasn't been properly documented or real clear about what caused the suspension. The initial unverified reports had him 1st testing positive for a banned substance. He was quoted in a Puerto Rican article it was from taking a medication he prevuiously had used & didnt finish for his arm previously that was now expired. Then a short time after that it was stated he had tested positive for "a substance of abuse" a 2nd time & was now being suspended for 50 games. Whether that means he was using old pain killers & they felt it was in a manner of abuse or he tested for something else such as amphetamines or weed now one seems to know. With the arm injury obviously affecting him in the WBC maybe its a bit of a silver lining & this will allow him time to heal & really motivate him. As long as his numbers weren't PED inflated, Im not overly concerned about a kid in a new country making a mistake. The only issue is if there is another it's now a 100 game suspension.
    Puerto Rico is not a different country btw. They vote for president and have non-voting member of congress. I am concerned as he already had a bad rap as a not so great charactered kid. I think a move to the OF is already a forgone conclusion. Dozier is above average at 2nd and you are right about a lack of OF prospects. The jury is out on Hicks as well. Who knows how long collabello and kubel will be able to limp around right field?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    This is not true.

    And with Hicks, Arcia and Buxton around, how many more OF's do you need?

    I count the following 5 OFs on my top 40 off-season Twins' prospects:

    Travis Harrison (13) Yes he is an OF now
    Max Kepler (16)
    Adam Walker (17)
    JD Williams (25)
    Zach Larson (36)

    The last 2 can play all OF positions and the top 3 are corner OFs. Also players like Amaurys Minier and Niko Goodrum might end up at the OF some time (because 3B will be taken for a while...)
    I had no idea they moved Harrison, really? That seems premature on him IMO. I thought Walker was a OF as much as Colabello is, basically a 1B who can play it in a pinch. Im not discounting Williams or Larson but they are probably another positive year away from truly putting themselves on the prospect map.

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    Not sure Eddie would be that valuable as an OF. Decent bat, but nothing special in a corner. I'd rather trade him than move him if that was the option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor0333 View Post
    I had no idea they moved Harrison, really? That seems premature on him IMO. I thought Walker was a OF as much as Colabello is, basically a 1B who can play it in a pinch. Im not discounting Williams or Larson but they are probably another positive year away from truly putting themselves on the prospect map.
    Walker actually is a pretty decent OF with the glove. Better than most of the corner OFs the Twins have had for a while. He has transitioned to the OF from 1B in the pros and this Spring was pretty good. Arm might be an issue, but we are not talking Revere, we are talking Willingham. He is better than Colabello out there. More speed helps.

    Harrison was caught in the numbers between Sano and Goodrum and Minier. Better chances to make it as an OF anyways...
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    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    Can we wait until he serves his suspension and is back on the field before we rule anything out or in?

    By the time he comes back, it will be late May -- 8-9 months after he last played. No spring training.

    Let's at least see what kind of shape he is in and how he does at New Britain before we start trying to figure out where to put him in Minnesota.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    Puerto Rico is not a different country btw. They vote for president and have non-voting member of congress. I am concerned as he already had a bad rap as a not so great charactered kid. I think a move to the OF is already a forgone conclusion. Dozier is above average at 2nd and you are right about a lack of OF prospects. The jury is out on Hicks as well. Who knows how long collabello and kubel will be able to limp around right field?
    Ok well its not a different country there is a very different culture & way of life there compared to the states. I never heard anything about his character. Maybe some small things are getting over blown from the team wanting to make a point and nip a couple habits in the bud before they grow. All I know is he was 19-20 years old at the time & I never heard any reports other than the suspension etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Walker actually is a pretty decent OF with the glove. Better than most of the corner OFs the Twins have had for a while. He has transitioned to the OF from 1B in the pros and this Spring was pretty good. Arm might be an issue, but we are not talking Revere, we are talking Willingham. He is better than Colabello out there. More speed helps.

    Harrison was caught in the numbers between Sano and Goodrum and Minier. Better chances to make it as an OF anyways...
    That's good to know, where would you project Rosario as a OF prospect in relation the remaining OF in the system? Just curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twins Twerp View Post
    Puerto Rico is not a different country btw. They vote for president
    They do not vote for president, if you are talking about the President of the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor0333 View Post
    That's good to know, where would you project Rosario as a OF prospect in relation the remaining OF in the system? Just curious.
    He'd still be the top OF in the system after Buxton, but, unlike the others save JD Williams, he is mostly a centerfielder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Brooks View Post
    They do not vote for president, if you are talking about the President of the United States.
    Puerto Rico doesn't vote in the general election but they do have primary votes in both major parties:

    http://www.fairvote.org/research-and...eral-election/

    And the debate continues there as it has since annexation from Spain on whether to maintain Commonwealth status, Statehood or Independence:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...ican-statehood

    As far as MLB is concerned (and perhaps, the legal system and labor law made this decision for the MLB), Puerto Rican prospects are considered subject to the same signing rules as all other American prospects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    As far as MLB is concerned (and perhaps, the legal system and labor law made this decision for the MLB), Puerto Rican prospects are considered subject to the same signing rules as all other American prospects.
    Indeed, but so do Canadians. And thus that line of reasoning gets hairy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    Indeed, but so do Canadians. And thus that line of reasoning gets hairy
    Are Canadians hairy?
    I couldn't be a player because of bad eyesight, so I decided to be an umpire instead.

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    He is most valuable as a center fielder or second baseman. I am not sure how his defense is at either, but his bat will play well there.

    Playing him in a corner combined with the suspension will drop his value to the team and other teams considerably. If he can play adequate 2B, they have some flexibility with Dozier either trading him or moving him to SS.

    While Dozier's metrics at SS were average, he didn't look that good. He also didn't look that good with the bat. That can happen in your first year. Some out there saw him at SS regularly in AA and might have insight whether he might be able to play adequately defensively. He had a lower than expected number of errors in the minors which might suggest good hands and feet. I think we saw that his arm was lacking which would limit the range.

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    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan View Post
    Not sure Eddie would be that valuable as an OF. Decent bat, but nothing special in a corner. I'd rather trade him than move him if that was the option.
    I think I'm going to disagree with you on this one.

    Now, to be fair, I have strongly advocated leaving Rosario at 2B for as long as possible to allow for various possibilities including: A) trading Dozier (which I'm really not in favor of at this point) B) moving Dozier back to his original lifelong position of SS now that he has gained comfort/experience/success/confidence at the ML level (a younger, better Drew for all the Drew proponents out there?) C) good trade value of Rosario as a 2B.

    I don't believe a move back to the OF for Rosario would be difficult if that is the direction the Twins would eventually take.

    The problem with Rosario is he is a talented enigma. He is such due to the suspension and rumors that are hopefully unfounded. And he is because while he shows real potential offensively, his talent remains largely untapped. Untapped, I believe, because while he has clearly deserved his promotions to this point, his most productive season was his first full as he has been, and is, young for each level.

    Using Trevor's comparatives, for instance, he clearly shows the ability to hit, but his power numbers and production have slipped. But how good could he be when given a chance for talent to equal out with age and level? Not only should he probably continue to hit well, but I believe his power numbers, (not just HR's) will begin to climb again.

    And to join Buxton and Hicks in the OF, play an excellent LF with range, hit, steal bases, and produce 30+ doubles yearly with a handful of triples, and say mid-teen HR totals, (assuming 20+ is beyond him) would give the Twins one of the best all around OFs in the league. You'd have tremendous defensive range, and a great mixed bag of hitting, OB, speed and power at the top and lower third of the order.

    Arcia, and possibly the aforementioned Kepler and Walker at DH, OF and 1B fill-in would be tremendous.

  18. #17
    Oh the value argument. So we trade him for a pitcher and put a stiff in LF. How much sense does that make? Arcia projects as a DH. Hicks may not even pan out, especially if he doesn't quit this switch hitting nonsense.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Puerto Rico doesn't vote in the general election but they do have primary votes in both major parties:

    http://www.fairvote.org/research-and...eral-election/

    And the debate continues there as it has since annexation from Spain on whether to maintain Commonwealth status, Statehood or Independence:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...ican-statehood

    As far as MLB is concerned (and perhaps, the legal system and labor law made this decision for the MLB), Puerto Rican prospects are considered subject to the same signing rules as all other American prospects.
    Exactly...should have been more specific. I believe they would be considered a protectorate vs. a colony. I think the point is that Rosario grew up in the US speaking spanish AND English. He is now an adult and should be held to the same standards as any 21 year old adult who has a job. Especially when that job could pay you millions. Now could he grow up and still be a great mlb player, sure. I hope to hell he does...time will tell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrylos View Post
    This is not true.

    And with Hicks, Arcia and Buxton around, how many more OF's do you need?

    I count the following 5 OFs on my top 40 off-season Twins' prospects:

    Travis Harrison (13) Yes he is an OF now
    Max Kepler (16)
    Adam Walker (17)
    JD Williams (25)
    Zach Larson (36)
    At this point all of those guys are at least 2 - 3 years away from being in the MLB roster conversation
    Kepler - We'll See
    Walker - We'll see
    Harrison - We'll see
    JD Williams - Could be a nice 4th OF guy
    Larsen - Way too early to predict
    Minier - Way too early to predict
    Goodrum - Super utility type?

    I agree with this article. So far Dozier has shown enough Right Handed power to stay with the team. Let's see what happens with Rosario after his suspension. If he can still hit, there is a place for him on the roster, and think LF would be an OK place for him.
    Rosario
    Buxton
    Arcia
    is not a bad OF for 2015

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tibs View Post
    Are Canadians hairy?
    Koskie is said to have been the hairiest person in that clubhouse. I think they pranked him about it a couple of times.

    Anywho, I agree with JB. Let this thing play out. But there are enough question marks about him that I would no longer rank him in my top 10. Polanco is ahead of him, and he is a legitimate threat to unseat Dozier, when the time comes. So perhaps they move Rosario to a corner. I'm not convinced he can't play there. He might not have the power traditonally associated with a corner player, but he could be a very productive corner player nonetheless.

    As for trading him, now would be the worst time. If he comes back and rakes in the second half, maybe you trade him in the offseason for the right deal. But why trade him unless you need to or his value is very high?
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

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