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Thread: Article: Pedro Florimon's "Limbo Line"

  1. #61
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    If you want to talk about bad form and painting pictures, then at least admit that Florimon's poor numbers are due to both hitting gloves and too many strike outs. It's not one or the other, it's a combination of the two, lets just be honest with ourselves here.
    I think his impoosibly bad numbers are due to a small sample from a really poor MLB hitter. The problem is, when given a really large sample, he's still going to have really bad numbers, because he's a really poor MLB hitter.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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  3. #62
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I think his impoosibly bad numbers are due to a small sample from a really poor MLB hitter. The problem is, when given a really large sample, he's still going to have really bad numbers, because he's a really poor MLB hitter.
    This. Florimon will not continue to hit this badly... but that doesn't mean he will hit at an acceptable level, either.

  4. #63
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Hey, it helped win the Twins a game. That's great.

    But it requires some pretty thick blinders to point out that moment and ignore the 30 other times he has failed to get on base that potentially cost the Twins a game earlier in the season.

    Pedro Florimon hasn't only been bad at the plate, he has been an embarrassment. So bad that he has made Drew Butera look like a competent hitter. There's just no way one can ignore that.
    There will come a point when I will no longer defend him, but I'm not there yet.

    If the middle of the order keeps rockin' I'll tolerate a bad slash line… but *ahem* yes, for the record, he's presently at .067/.176/.067.

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    There will come a point when I will no longer defend him, but I'm not there yet.

    If the middle of the order keeps rockin' I'll tolerate a bad slash line… but *ahem* yes, for the record, he's presently at .067/.176/.067.
    I just don't see the point in defending him. He's very good defensively and very bad offensively. He's not a young prospect. He hasn't hit at any level.

    There just isn't much upside in him as a player. Why defend that guy?

  6. #65
    Owner MVP Seth Stohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    This. Florimon will not continue to hit this badly... but that doesn't mean he will hit at an acceptable level, either.
    But therein lies the question and the intended discussion for this blog... based on his terrific defense, what is that "acceptable" level? I love watching Florimon play, and I loved watching Butera work behind the plate. Defense does matter and it should especially in the context of trying to improve a pitching staff.

  7. #66
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    The Bartlett experiment screams a bit of desperation over the failure of Florimon to be able to hit. I think they see that Esco is what he is and Nunez is nothing but a stab in the dark. I really think they were hoping Bartlett would be able to come back and fill the void until they could find someone long term.

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  9. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by USNMCPO View Post
    The Bartlett experiment screams a bit of desperation over the failure of Florimon to be able to hit. I think they see that Esco is what he is and Nunez is nothing but a stab in the dark. I really think they were hoping Bartlett would be able to come back and fill the void until they could find someone long term.
    I had the same thought. And welcome aboard, Master Chief.
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

  10. #68
    Twins Moderator MVP USAFChief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    But therein lies the question and the intended discussion for this blog... based on his terrific defense, what is that "acceptable" level? I love watching Florimon play, and I loved watching Butera work behind the plate. Defense does matter and it should especially in the context of trying to improve a pitching staff.
    If Florimon could singlehandedly improve a pitching staff, shouldnt last years staff have been better?
    Every post is not every other post. - a wise man

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    "You CAN have one hole in the lineup...(like in the) NL." The difference is, in the NL, every team has one hole in the lineup. " Actually, you CAN have a hole in the lineup in the AL also and more than just the pitcher in the NL. Contending teams Atlanta had 2 regular position players hit .184 or less. Cards had 1 position player hit .217 with no power. Pirates had 3 below .226. Tampa had 1 at .233, Cleveland had 2 at .225 or lower and Oakland had one at .226. Its a team game and the problem with the Twins last year is that those numbers were the norm rather than the exception. At least he DOES play good defense at an important defensive position. I agree that it is a little silly to have a guy like that be a switch hitter just like I believe it was silly to let Hicks stick with it. It just seems like the upside of batting left against righties is probably what he would bat right handed against righties so what is the point?

  13. #70
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    People get blinded by perception and wear rose-colored glasses for their favorites. Reading this thread it is easy to conclude that Florimon is one of the very best fielders in decades and stops beaceau runs--and all of the potential replacements are schlubs. Neither opinion is accurate.

    That being said, extending the leash on Florimon to the end of April should be clear, andlikely to the middle of May before "pulling the plug". Quite possibly there will be a parade of SS-candidates this season, sort of like what was done for pitchers. Eventually, the need may (will) arise to dip lower than AAA to find a SS. So be it.

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    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    But therein lies the question and the intended discussion for this blog... based on his terrific defense, what is that "acceptable" level? I love watching Florimon play, and I loved watching Butera work behind the plate. Defense does matter and it should especially in the context of trying to improve a pitching staff.
    To answer your question, .220/.280/.320, or about what he did last year. I just think that is about as good as he gets and he's more likely to hit .200/.260/.300 over the course of an MLB season. Historically, some championship teams have been able to carry a guy like that, e.g. Orioles and Mark Belanger. But those days are over. It is no longer a viable product to have a line-up with one big hole in it.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  15. #72
    If Pedro can hit .230 with a .300 OBP he is solid in my book. I think he is a cornerstone to the next Twins play off run. Toss in double digit bombs is gravy!! He is young "the wizzard of Oz" was a terrible bat for a decade before he learned to hit. Do you really think San Diego would still make that trade for G Templeton? Play the kid!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    His OPS+ is 125. His OBP is .328. His SLG is .468.

    Batting average tells only a fragment of the story, which is why it should never be used in isolation.
    .191 is still below the mendoza line and below average. I"m just stating facts.

  18. #74
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Hey, it helped win the Twins a game. That's great.

    But it requires some pretty thick blinders to point out that moment and ignore the 30 other times he has failed to get on base that potentially cost the Twins a game earlier in the season.

    Pedro Florimon hasn't only been bad at the plate, he has been an embarrassment. So bad that he has made Drew Butera look like a competent hitter. There's just no way one can ignore that.
    Nobody is disagreeing that a .067 AVG is terrible. It is absolutely unacceptable at any level of baseball. However, it's April 15th, the Twins are playing .500 and people are panicking.

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  20. #75
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    Who is panicking about what? Pedro was awful last year as a hitter, I don't think anyone is basing their opinion on the games so far this year alone.
    Lighten up Francis....

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  22. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    Nobody is disagreeing that a .067 AVG is terrible. It is absolutely unacceptable at any level of baseball. However, it's April 15th, the Twins are playing .500 and people are panicking.
    What people? Do you mean the MN Twins organization? Even the professional evaluators therein,
    the ones who are constantly heralded as having mega-dimensional baseball knowledge relative to the average fan,
    the ones who put the big money on the line,

    find the current situation intolerable.

    Is that what you mean by people panicking?

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    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth Stohs View Post
    But therein lies the question and the intended discussion for this blog... based on his terrific defense, what is that "acceptable" level? I love watching Florimon play, and I loved watching Butera work behind the plate. Defense does matter and it should especially in the context of trying to improve a pitching staff.
    To me, the magic OPS number is around .640-.650.

    And I'm skeptical that he'll ever reach that number. I'm actually skeptical that he'll OPS over .600 this season. After a decent start to 2013, he only OPSed around .575 the rest of the season.

  24. #78
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    .191 is still below the mendoza line and below average. I"m just stating facts.
    "Hitting" is not synonymous with "batting average".

    Batting average is one aspect of hitting. There is also power and discipline, which Dozier has shown both this season and the majority of last season.

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  26. #79
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAFChief View Post
    I think his impoosibly bad numbers are due to a small sample from a really poor MLB hitter. The problem is, when given a really large sample, he's still going to have really bad numbers, because he's a really poor MLB hitter.
    Yep, as long as he keeps batting poorly, he'll continue having poor numbers at the plate. That goes without saying..

  27. #80
    Senior Member Triple-A Reider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    "Hitting" is not synonymous with "batting average".

    Batting average is one aspect of hitting. There is also power and discipline, which Dozier has shown both this season and the majority of last season.
    Dozier is a pretty good hitter. I'm not worried about him.

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