04-16-2014, 08:31 PM #41
Having said all that, I agree that both parties exploit human weaknesses to their own advantage, and in the process of shaping thought-processes, employ a constant feedback loop mode that reinforces the politics of division instead of inclusion. Couple that with the current implementation of unwritten, yet still rigid "speech codes"-of completely stifling freedom of thought and expression, and you have the situation we have now- where all the gains we've made since the 60s, resulting in our first African American President, threaten to unravel.
04-16-2014, 08:41 PM #42
Last edited by jokin; 04-16-2014 at 10:37 PM.
04-16-2014, 09:45 PM #43
It's the Democrats who kept KKK Grand Kleagle, Robert Byrd in the US Senate until his death in 2011.
It was Democrats who called General Colin Powell a "house n*****".
It was Democrats who called Condi Rice - who grew up with and knew the little girls in Birmingham who were blown up, by Democrats - an "Aunt Jemima" and ran cartoons of her with fat lips doing Hattie McDaniel riffs.
It was Democrats, or at least Obama supporters, who called Stacy Dash (and Neurosurgeon Dr Ben Carson, Justice Clarence Thomas, Libertarian talk show host, Larry Elder) a hundred different racist names for daring to leave the Democrat plantation. It's the Democrats who hold annual dinners honoring Andrew Jackson, who owned slaves and who orchestrated the Removal, the Trail of Tears, the near genocide of several of the Indian Nations.
The Democratic party racism of low expectations known as affirmative action along with its diversity and pluralism relatives encompassing only certain so called minorities, contempt for those "clinging to their guns" and/or "religion",..... NASCAR aficionados.
To show how silly the depths the debate has morphed into, Malcolm X, who has ascended to equal status, as a Civil Rights hero and martyr, to Martin Luther King, held these views:
* Malcolm X viewed affirmative action and welfare as means to re-enslave Black people.
* He was an avid gun owner
* As a Muslim, he viewed homosexuality as a vile sin. (Naturally, he'd consider a Black person who supported "gay marriage" or open homosexuality in the military to be a fool.)
* Malcolm X held Democrats in contempt. (He wasn't fond of the GOP either):
Sounds like the views he espoused are widely held by a certain segment of people today who instead of being championed, are held in vile contempt.
This user likes jokin's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:
04-16-2014, 10:49 PM #44
LBJ had one motive for the welfare state, and it wasn't concern for the poor. His reason, in his own words, was "I'll have those [deleted] voting Democratic for the next 200 years" The motives and the results haven't improved since.
This user likes gil4's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:
04-16-2014, 11:29 PM #45
In it, he wrote that blacks could only achieve equality with the
"establishment of a stable Negro family structure."
Citing statistics about government intervention causing rising welfare dependency, illegitimate births, and divorce, Moynihan pointed to a "tangle of pathology." He characterized black family structure as "highly unstable"
and "approaching complete breakdown."
"Moynihan’s study of the relationship between poverty and family structure, famously known as the Moynihan Report, is, as I noted in a recent article in the Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science, an important and prophetic document. It is important because it continues to be a reference for studies on the black family and the plight of low-skilled black males. It was prophetic because Moynihan’s predictions about the fragmentation of the African American Family and its connection to inner-city poverty were largely borne out......."
Some sources claim that Moynihan was the first victim of "PC", largely because of these works (http://prospect.org/article/moynihan-enigma). Moynihan (wisely for his future political fortunes) abandoned study in this area, leaving it to fewer and lesser-quality scholars for further research. His work in this area became focused on job skill training, but the damage of the Great Society was already baked in the cake. The first casualty was the Truth, the second, to future race relations, but the greatest casualty was to generation after generation of Americans mired in the very cycle of poverty that the War on Poverty was supposed to eradicate.
Last edited by jokin; 04-16-2014 at 11:32 PM.
04-17-2014, 09:33 AM #46
That LBJ quote is about as damning as I could possibly imagine a quote being. I have enormous problems with The Great Society - in my opinion it's the quintessential piece of liberal policy.
Great ideals, noble missions, truly at the heart of what it means to be a good citizen - everything that makes liberalism great. And then....written without a care for how effective it will be in achieving those ends and ultimately being a bigger burden on those ideals than a path to achieving them, but nonetheless glorified without merit and protected irrationally on the basis of it's intents and not effects. In other words, everything about why liberalism is so damn frustrating.
This user likes TheLeviathan's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:
04-17-2014, 09:53 AM #47
- Liked 143 Times in 75 Posts
It is a attributed to a single person, Ronald Kessler, a right wing author, and has never been corroborated by anyone.
Ronald Kessler has already been proven once to have fabricated a story regarding an Obama/Jeremiah Wright anecdote, then admitted to attempting to remove the story from his Wikipedia page biography when the story was proven to be false.
04-17-2014, 11:21 AM #48
04-18-2014, 02:35 PM #49
I'm finally going to post what I was originally planning to write when I clicked on the thread, before I got mad. (After I finished writing, I said a lot more than I originally planned to say.)
I never understood the hate. It was a tremendous accomplishment. The countdown was exiting. I remember (and I think I remember accurately) watching Monday Night Baseball and having them switch to the Braves game for Hank Aaron's at-bats. I remember seeing the home run live. And I remember hearing about the people who were upset because a black man was breaking Ruth's record, and in the ears of a nine-year old, it was just stupid.
In the ears of a 49-year-old, it's still stupid.
I saw the movie "42" for the first time last weekend. There was one scene where Branch Rickey told about a white kid immitating Jackie Robinson. That was me, except I wasn't Jackie Robinson rubbing dirt on my hands (he was before my time). I was the stocky, right-handed white Rod Carew using a lefty open stance, with the bat tilted back, an inside-out swing, and a number 29 taped on the back of my cheap plastic Twins helmet.
I also remember a Sports Illustrated article and his wife endured a lot of abuse because he's black and she is white. And that made no sense to me, either.
That's not to toot my own horn. If I had been born 10 or 20 years earlier, it probably would have made sense to me, but I wasn't and that wasn't how I was raised.
I also know how well prejudices can be hidden. My younger sister was asked to the prom by a kid who was black. My mother gave me the third degree about him, and I gave all the wrong answers. "He's a really nice kid, very polite and respectful (not being condescending - he was just a very "yes sir/no sir kind of kid, and that wasn't the norm in the northeast, so that kind of stood out), they go to our church, you know the family his father is a teacher at the high school... My mother's answer was "But he's black." It shocked the hell out of me. She hadn't raised me like that, but it was there. I answered "So-o-o-o?" She started to cry. She had nothing else. But I'm pretty sure she still said no. (My sister was a few years younger, and I did my best to ignore here at the time.)
Arthur C., if your daughter asks my daughter to the prom, and he's as nice a kid as you were, the answer will be yes. That's all I can do. I can't go back and right old wrongs.
Our country has come a long way since Jackie Robinson - huge strides, not baby steps. Is there a ways left to go. Of course. Will we ever get there? This study leads me to believe we probably won't: http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2014/04/...w-racial-bias/. All we can do is work to identify our biases and evaluate our decisions in the light of them.
If we want to have an honest discussion of race in America, we need to stop expecting to fix past wrongs. It can’t be done. Reparations are not forthcoming. All we can do is draw a line in the sand and start now. My great-great-great grandparents debt is not my debt, nor is my grand-parents’ nor my parents’. (My own sins are too heavy for me to carry without heaping theirs upon me too.) If you’d like to help combat racism of all types and colors, we can talk. If you just want to score points and place blame, don’t waste my time.
04-18-2014, 03:15 PM #50
Last edited by PseudoSABR; 04-18-2014 at 03:23 PM.
04-18-2014, 03:49 PM #51
We need to address the systemic underpinnings of racial issues but we also have to have some courage to address the responsibility of people today to fix their own issues contributing to those systemic challenges as well. Doing one without the other (of either approach) leads to nothing in my opinion.
04-18-2014, 07:40 PM #52
- Liked 143 Times in 75 Posts
04-18-2014, 07:55 PM #53Staff Writer for Tomahawktake.com, come check it out!
This user likes biggentleben's post and wants to buy him/her a steak dinner:
04-18-2014, 09:07 PM #54
04-19-2014, 02:33 PM #55
It's a difficult thing to teach (or learn) work ethic and change attitudes; ideally these attributes are best taught by the parents. But we do not live in that ideal world. At some point we have accept that if we don't collectively take the responsibility to teach each citizen born the value of personal responsibility, the same populations of people will continue to lack it (of course).
To do it right, costs money and talent; which far too many are unwilling to commit. Because the sad truth is there aren't enough jobs and real opportunities for any of us. And even if everyone of us possessed a deep sense of personal responsibility, we all know that so many will remain listlessly unemployed.
Last edited by PseudoSABR; 04-19-2014 at 02:38 PM.
04-19-2014, 03:01 PM #56
To me there is something truly racist in the idea of holding back criticism because you lower the bar of acceptable behavior.
Last edited by TheLeviathan; 04-19-2014 at 03:06 PM.
04-19-2014, 08:56 PM #57
My point continues to be that poor attitudes and behaviors are totally unacceptable, but unfortunately (due to, imo, social negligence), large groups of people don't have individuals or institutions in their lives to teach them such.
Sure, it'd be nice for parents ten-generations ago to teach their children values and attitudes that lead to socially productive individuals and for such values and behaviors to be honed over that long time--of course, some groups of individuals weren't afforded the opportunity to have such a legacy survive today.
I think we (largely, I mean white people who have found some, even if modest, success) sheepishly take for granted the ancestral role in our own values and behaviors; we overlook the successes (and privileges) of our forebearers', and their contribution to being reared in a way that leads to self-reliance. It allows us to assume that people should just muster up trying-hardness or worth ethic. But such pervasive, life-affecting values cannot be mustered up--they are wisdom, and they are hard won over many-generations.
Last edited by PseudoSABR; 04-19-2014 at 09:27 PM.
04-19-2014, 09:35 PM #58
Liberalism, by and large, avoids discussing anything that would be controversial about race for fear of losing a big part of their voting base. You yourself are trying to say you hold people accountable for their behavior and would talk bluntly about unacceptable, uncivil behavior but the truth is you go and hide behind the "systems" again. It's both. It's an ongoing systemic problem but it's also that segments of our population (some would argue as earlier that liberal policy actually lead to much of this) shun education, child rearing, non-violence, and generally civil/acceptable behavior. And again, I've seen this firsthand where there was actual opportunity but the larger pull of culture lead to awful misogyny, recreational violence, dismissal of education, etc.
The only fix has to address both. Unfortunately most voices that speak out against the latter are shunned from public discourse. Ironically, in my opinion, for racist reasons.
04-28-2014, 10:32 AM #59
04-29-2014, 02:53 PM #60
- Liked 220 Times in 140 Posts