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Thread: Moves that are warranted

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    If it is true that he is a great defender at SS, those skills are rare. Defense saves runs and wins games. He turned a bad throw from Hughes into an out. It could have been runners on second and third no outs top first.

    It is a myth that there are lots of great defensive shortstops (or catchers) in the minors. Some teams would care about losing him.
    There is no question Pedro is a very good defensive shortstop. But his career line in over 600 AB is .208, OBP .269, OPS .569. By continuing to run out a guy like that, you are saying as long as you are good at defense, we don't really care that your bat belongs in low A. I don't think that is the right approach. Especially since he is 27, never really looked very good in the minors, was never a top prospect, etc.

    If only we could have seen this coming.
    Last edited by tobi0040; 05-05-2014 at 08:30 AM.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sconnie View Post
    CF situation can be SS situation if they are not careful
    I'd say the situations are already similar in dearth of talent. CF simply also has a dearth of bodies. But is having four corpses really that much better than having one?

    Santana's lack of actvity also seems strange to me. You'd think they'd be using him if they were going to call him up. A middle infielder who can hit but doesn't take walks and with the athletic ability to play SS but possible mental lapses seems exactly like the kind of guy who would use up each and every one of his option years.
    Last edited by nicksaviking; 05-05-2014 at 09:03 AM.

  4. #23
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    No amount of defense makes up for that bat. It just doesn't. 5 at bats a game, vs .5-1 hard play (on average) a game. It just doesn't add up.
    Lighten up Francis....

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  6. #24
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby_Waved_At_Me View Post
    right on - I thought maybe it was mentioned on the radio or tv telecast what the plan for using Santana was (I was at the game on Saturday, and missed seeing/hearing Sunday's game live).
    I think the plan was damage control after the Dodgers sweep. It's a fair guess that Danny will appear in some capacity during the Cleveland series.
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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'd say the situations are already similar in dearth of talent. CF simply also has a dearth of bodies. But is having four corpses really that much better than having one?

    Santana's lack of actvity also seems strange to me. You'd think they'd be using him if they were going to call him up. A middle infielder who can hit but doesn't take walks and with the athletic ability to play SS but possible mental lapses seems exactly like the kind of guy who would use up each and everyone of his option years.
    If Santana is going to hit .260 or .270, by my account that is another 40 hits or so a year than Pedro will hit (over 600 AB). Let's just agree that he will have defensive lapses and that is ok, especially for a young kid with upside.

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    There is no question Pedro is a very good defensive shortstop. But his career line in over 600 AB is .208, OBP .269, OPS .569. By continuing to run out a guy like that, you are saying as long as you are good at defense, we don't really care that your bat belongs in low A. I don't think that is the right approach. Especially since he is 27, never really looked very good in the minors, was never a top prospect, etc.

    If only we could have seen this coming.
    Indeed. If only some of us saw this coming.

    While defensive run saved/allowed can be a bit sketchy, Fangraphs currently has Florimon listed at +12.1 runs saved over his career at shortstop.

    At the plate? He's -25.8 runs.

    While I'm no math major, when I add up those numbers I see a player who is an overall detriment to his team.

    Which pretty much lines up exactly how I eyeballed Florimon in the first place. Good with the glove, a complete menace with the bat that more than offsets anything good he does in the field.

  9. #27
    Parmalee has had his shot at the 25 man roster and didn't make the cut. His positions are being capably handled by Colabello and Kubel with Arcia coming back when he is ready.

    You would actually lose value for Parmalee by adding him to the 25 man roster now. He has no options left. If he needs to be sent back down, you not only expose him by DFA'ing him but if I'm not mistaken, he can also become a free agent by being DFA'd twice. As he currently is not on the 40 man roster, he can be traded to any team without having to be waived or needing to stick on another team's 25/40 man rosters. He has more value as a trade chip by not needing a roster spot.

    Hermann serves a purpose on the roster by having options left. He can be optioned when the injured outfielders return from the DL. Parmalee does not fill that need. If and when Parmalee can put together some good numbers, he can be traded to a team looking to fill an injury opening. The Twins have plenty of outfielders in their system who have not used any of their options that can be added to the 40 man roster.

    Where would Parmalee play if he was called up? He can play 1st, DH or one of the corner outfield positions. The last I heard we had Mauer, Colabello, Kubel and Pinto filling those positions with Arcia and Willingham eventually coming back from the DL. And if you remember the previous years, Parmalee was not particularly strong as a pinch hitter. Parmalee has had his chance to make this team. Let him play his way onto another team via a trade.

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKGuy View Post
    Is Guerrier a better option than Tonkin?
    No... but the clock is ticking on Guerrier's contract stipulations for call-up. They didn't sign him, only to lose him, to Free Agency.

  12. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    Well, great. Maybe he can "re"discover his swing in AAA while Nunez becomes the utility guy.
    I'd have Flori trying out AA pitching instead.

  13. #30
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    I'd be more impressed if all the people who saw Florimon struggling also saw Suzuki raking. At least before they develop bilateral arm breakage from patting themselves on the back.
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  15. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jorgenswest View Post
    If it is true that he is a great defender at SS, those skills are rare. Defense saves runs and wins games. He turned a bad throw from Hughes into an out. It could have been runners on second and third no outs top first.

    It is a myth that there are lots of great defensive shortstops (or catchers) in the minors. Some teams would care about losing him.
    Perhaps we should go through the Baseball America minor league SS evaluations more comprehensively, and accept what they say as gospel. They appeared to have nailed their evaluation on P-Flo:

    The switch-hitter is a flashy but erratic defender, wrote Baseball America prior to the season (2011). BA ranked him 29th among Orioles prospects at that point, questioning his ability to hit advanced pitching.

  16. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    I'd be more impressed if all the people who saw Florimon struggling also saw Suzuki raking. At least before they develop bilateral arm breakage from patting themselves on the back.
    Kurt has had 77 plate appearances. That is 15 games at 5 at bats a game. If he is still raking in July, we were all wrong. To quote Denny Green, Pedro is what we thought he was.

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  18. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    I'd be more impressed if all the people who saw Florimon struggling also saw Suzuki raking. At least before they develop bilateral arm breakage from patting themselves on the back.
    Certain things are more predictable than others, and that comes with taking much less stock in small bits of data. What Florimon is doing at the plate has been solidly baked into the cake over a 9 year career in the minors. We all love what Suzuki is currently doing for the Twins, heck I've always liked the guy- just NOT for his hitting prowess. His current streak of plate expertise is a nice bonus, but his career stats suggest he'll eventually return to those levels. (Gardy let it slip in his post-game presser yesterday when asked about Suzuki's hitting, saying he's a nice veteran guy to have around for a year. He could very well be gone in July).

  19. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    Kurt has had 77 plate appearances. That is 15 games at 5 at bats a game. If he is still raking in July, we were all wrong. To quote Denny Green, Pedro is what we thought he was.
    Yup. Small samples are only useful when confirming bias, but not so much when contradicting it.

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  21. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    I'd be more impressed if all the people who saw Florimon struggling also saw Suzuki raking. At least before they develop bilateral arm breakage from patting themselves on the back.
    Twins Venn diagram.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    I'd be more impressed if all the people who saw Florimon struggling also saw Suzuki raking. At least before they develop bilateral arm breakage from patting themselves on the back.
    There was no reason to expect this kind of production from Suzuki. A pleasant surprise, for sure.

    On the other hand, there was no reason to expect decent production from Florimon outside of miscast hope. The guy wasn't good in the minors. Last year, he became progressively worse at the plate. He's 27 years old.

  24. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom Boom View Post

    Exactly. Easy predictions are easy. Impressive predictions are not.

    Probably neither merits bilateral arm breakage, though.
    Last edited by crarko; 05-05-2014 at 09:09 AM.
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  25. #38
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    [QUOTE=crarko;223013]Exactly. Easy predictions are easy. Impressive predictions are not.QUOTE]

    Too bad the Pedro prediction was not easy enough for the Twins to predict it and actually bring in a short stop this offseason.

  26. #39
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    [QUOTE=tobi0040;223019]
    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    Exactly. Easy predictions are easy. Impressive predictions are not.QUOTE]

    Too bad the Pedro prediction was not easy enough for the Twins to predict it and actually bring in a short stop this offseason.
    Yes, because had that happened they'd likely be in second place in the division.
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  28. #40
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    IMO, the front office is still valuing tools too much once a player matures. Florimon and even Hicks have great LOOKING tools, but when it comes to actual production, they both fall miserably short. If, big if, Florimon or Hicks could hit .270 at the plate all of us would be happy to eat crow. The problem is Florimon CAN'T do that. He may look smooth in the field and take good BP, but the guy cant make contact. Hicks at least has youth on his side, FLorimon is supposedly in his prime. Yikes.

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