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Thread: Moves that are warranted

  1. #41
    Senior Member All-Star crarko's Avatar
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    Yeah, Hicks still has a chance for the light to come on, although his window is shrinking.

    What's the current thinking about Arcia? Back up right away when the rehab assignment completes or more time in AAA? I really have no idea.
    Oh, I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay,
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siehbiscuit View Post
    IMO, the front office is still valuing tools too much once a player matures. Florimon and even Hicks have great LOOKING tools, but when it comes to actual production, they both fall miserably short. If, big if, Florimon or Hicks could hit .270 at the plate all of us would be happy to eat crow. The problem is Florimon CAN'T do that. He may look smooth in the field and take good BP, but the guy cant make contact. Hicks at least has youth on his side, FLorimon is supposedly in his prime. Yikes.
    I think Hicks and Pedro are apples and oranges. Hicks is 24, was a top prospect, and has only 350 at bats up here. Pedro is 27, was never highly touted, was left unprotected, and has 610 at bats up here. As bad as Hicks has been, his OPS is 20 basis points better and his walk rate is encouraging and his BABIP has been very low.

    That does not mean that Hicks could not benefit from going down, but with him I think it is between the ears. Pedro just doesn't have it. He is like Ponder. He just isn't good. He tries hard, he puts in the effort. But the skills are not there.

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  4. #43
    Senior Member Big-Leaguer
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post
    Yeah, Hicks still has a chance for the light to come on, although his window is shrinking.

    What's the current thinking about Arcia? Back up right away when the rehab assignment completes or more time in AAA? I really have no idea.
    I agree his window is "shrinking" in the sense that everyone's window is shrinking as they get closer to death. But as tobi pointed out, Hicks hasn't even gotten a full season at the Major League level. Have we gotten so impatient that a prospect must be above-average within 5 months of arrival? If that were the standard, I would imagine that boatloads of current MLBers would never have gotten the chance to excel.

  5. #44
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    Who here asked for above average within 5 months? No one.
    Lighten up Francis....

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  7. #45
    Twins Moderator All-Star twinsnorth49's Avatar
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    I don't see too much bi-lateral arm breakage over predicting Florimon's abysmal failure to be a competent hitter, just people stating what should have been glaringly obvious, especially to professional baseball people who's stated goal it was to improve. Suzuki has been a pleasant surprise, but he has been a surprise and his success is much more likely to be a result of SSS than P-Flo's.

  8. #46
    Senior Member Double-A SirLoin's Avatar
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    I don't think we'll have to worry about the roster spot for Parmelee. Isn't Mauer going to go on the 60-day DL soon with those back spasms? Or will they rest him until July and then put him on the DL? Then they might have to put Florimon on waivers.

  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by crarko View Post

    Yes, because had that happened they'd likely be in second place in the division.
    Or, if they had acknowledged the predictable deficiency and upgraded the position, they might be in first place.

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  11. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jokin View Post
    Or, if they had acknowledged the predictable deficiency and upgraded the position, they might be in first place.
    If I am paying $150 for my family of four to park, go to the game, and have a snack, don't I deserve to watch major league players?

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  13. #49
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    I'm more concerned with Minor League roster moves.
    *What is the organizational plan for outfielders (8) in Fort Myers with so many guys coming off the DL and all targeted for the Miracle?
    Lance Ray (playing soon but where?)
    Nate Roberts (playing soon but where?)
    Byron Buxton (just activated with Miracle)
    JD Williams (activated to Cedar Rapids but you have to assume he is headed to Ft. Myers soon)
    Travis Harrison (appears to be set to play LF all season and doing it well)
    Max Kepler (Should be back in OF when Dalton Hicks (1B) comes off DL)
    Adam Brett Walker (Has played all but 1 game in RF this season)
    Jonathan Murphy (argueably the second best defender of group)

  14. #50
    Twins Contributor All-Star Jeremy Nygaard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snepp View Post
    According to TD's resident roster and payroll expert, Florimon has used just 2 option years, 2010 and 11.
    I'm going to look closer at this. Off the top of my mind, I believe the Florimon was claimed off waivers and then outrighted, so that's why he spent 2012 and the minors and not on an optional assignment. If he was on the 40-man the whole time, then 2012 would have been his 3rd option year.

    ---
    Checked it out...

    12/5/11 Claimed off waivers
    12/12/11 Outrighted
    8/15/12 Contracted purchased.

    No option year. Has been up with Twins since. So he has one option left.
    Last edited by Jeremy Nygaard; 05-05-2014 at 12:25 PM.

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  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    If I am paying $150 for my family of four to park, go to the game, and have a snack, don't I deserve to watch major league players?
    You should probably ask a twins exec that question.

    As should the fans in Rochester and NB.....don't they deserve AAA and AA OF?
    Last edited by mike wants wins; 05-05-2014 at 12:06 PM.
    Lighten up Francis....

  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightfoot789 View Post
    I'm more concerned with Minor League roster moves.
    *What is the organizational plan for outfielders (8) in Fort Myers with so many guys coming off the DL and all targeted for the Miracle?
    Lance Ray (playing soon but where?)
    Nate Roberts (playing soon but where?)
    Byron Buxton (just activated with Miracle)
    JD Williams (activated to Cedar Rapids but you have to assume he is headed to Ft. Myers soon)
    Travis Harrison (appears to be set to play LF all season and doing it well)
    Max Kepler (Should be back in OF when Dalton Hicks (1B) comes off DL)
    Adam Brett Walker (Has played all but 1 game in RF this season)
    Jonathan Murphy (argueably the second best defender of group)
    Buxton is there for a quick tune up. But point taken.

  18. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobi0040 View Post
    I think Hicks and Pedro are apples and oranges. Hicks is 24, was a top prospect, and has only 350 at bats up here. Pedro is 27, was never highly touted, was left unprotected, and has 610 at bats up here. As bad as Hicks has been, his OPS is 20 basis points better and his walk rate is encouraging and his BABIP has been very low.
    I agree. Hicks has had a performance at the low-end of "tolerable" but he usually starts slow and there is reason to expect improvement. Florimon has a negative OPS+. There is also a reasonable replacement for Florimon on the 25 man roster. There isn't a replacement for Hicks who is above A-ball.

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  20. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJL44 View Post
    There isn't a replacement for Hicks who is above A-ball.
    I'm sure there will be another AAAA CF hit waivers again soon.

    Of course the way things are going, the Twins would likely put themselves in the position that they'd have to DFA Fuld to get him.

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  22. #55
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicksaviking View Post
    I'm sure there will be another AAAA CF hit waivers again soon.

    Of course the way things are going, the Twins would likely put themselves in the position that they'd have to DFA Fuld to get him.
    Priceless.

  23. #56
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    In consideration of fairness.

    If you look at Pedro's career numbers the past two years.
    2012 BA .219 OPS .579
    2013 BA .221 OPS .611

    Now 2014 BA .113 OPS .352

    His bat is struggling at a new level. It doesn't compare with what he did before. This ain't the same ball player.

    He's not a good hitter... But he's not been this bad.

    This isn't a "See I told you so moment"... If he was hitting .210... It would be a "See I told you so moment.

    On the other side of the coin... I've been a big proponent of Bonofacio... I'm not going to look at his 2014... BA .321 and OPS .761 and say "See I told you So".

    I wanted Bonofacio for the player he was... It wasn't because I thought he'd do what he's done this April and I supported Florimon for the player he was.

    This ain't that Florimon. He's messed up and I don't think we should play him until he un-messes.

  24. #57
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    My eyes hurt seeing those numbers all together like that. I can't believe think his defense covers up for that.
    Lighten up Francis....

  25. #58
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike wants wins View Post
    My eyes hurt seeing those numbers all together like that. I can't believe think his defense covers up for that.
    I do think his defense covers for SOME of his lack of hitting when his lack of hitting is at least over .200... I'm not signing him to 5 year 100 million deal but there is value in his D.

    It doesn't cover for what he is doing right now and he will be packing his fabulous glove and rocket arm into a suitcase and going back home to the Dominican Republic if he doesn't start going with the pitch.

    He's messed up.

  26. #59
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverbrian View Post
    In consideration of fairness.

    If you look at Pedro's career numbers the past two years.
    2012 BA .219 OPS .579
    2013 BA .221 OPS .611

    Now 2014 BA .113 OPS .352

    His bat is struggling at a new level. It doesn't compare with what he did before. This ain't the same ball player.

    He's not a good hitter... But he's not been this bad.

    This isn't a "See I told you so moment"... If he was hitting .210... It would be a "See I told you so moment.
    The thing is about fringe hitters like Florimon is that when they collapse, they often don't drop to a .550 OPS; they have a tendency to utterly and completely collapse. Bill James wrote a fantastic article about aging and how fringe players often drop out of baseball entirely in their late 20s because they're fringe players who can't compensate for loss of skill or league adjustment. There's a good chance Pedro Florimon falls into that category of player.

    If you asked me "What's more likely: Florimon OPSing at .400 or .650 in May?", there's a good chance I would have replied ".400". The writing was on the wall that this guy had a good chance of imploding violently and spectacularly at any moment. He is old-ish. For a speed guy he misses the ball far too often, negating his ability to leg out a hit. He puts the ball in the air too often. He has no discipline. He relied on a decent early 2013 before fading pretty badly in the second half, indicating that he's not adjusting to opposing pitchers. Too much of his OPS is powered by homers, a fickle thing to rely on from a marginal power guy playing in Target Field.

    Pedro Florimon might be able to turn it around. There's always a chance of that happening. My point all along is that the chance of that happening and his ceiling prevent any rational team from wasting the time to find out.

  27. #60
    Senior Member All-Star Winston Smith's Avatar
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    Stupid comment of the day, getting it out of the way early, is it worth trying Dozier back at SS for a week or two? Nunez would likely be acceptable at 2B at least more so than SS and Dozier is now settled in at "the major league level" and maybe could handle SS this time. If it works and with Rosario maybe ready by late in the year the middle would look kind of good.
    This comment brought to you from the Rosedale Mall studio by Hamm's Beer, brewed in the land of sky blue waters.

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