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Thread: Article: Roster Shuffle: Twins Add Guerrier, What's Next?

  1. #181
    Twins Moderator MVP Riverbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siehbiscuit View Post
    I understand both points of view, but the "CEO of baseball decisions" or each team's GM, is not involved in these unimportant tasks, such as diamond dust. Each minor league affiliate is independently owned and operated. The Twins organization does nothing but send players to the affiliates. The GM's job is all about the personnel. Yes, he needs to manage a budget and the like, but his ultimate job is building rosters. He constructs (not by himself, but it is ultimately his decision) and manages rosters at all levels. Whether it is the draft, FA, international scouting, waivers, Rule 5, etc, any way to acquire players is on the GM. This is not over-simplifying, this IS his duty. He constructs and manages the rosters. Again, he surely has people that help and advise him (more eyes, the better), but this is his job.

    The Twins scout very well, but roster construction at the MLB level has been a chronic problem.
    I probably typed that wrong... Yes... Roster Construction is probably his most important gig. But I doubt that his entire day is filled up with roster construction.

    With Diamond Dust... My point is that there are things on his plate that we haven't thought of and it's all important to the overall strength of the organization.

    I'd like people to consider the possibility that it's quite possible that the GM hadn't seen Brian Buchanan before acquiring him in a deal... I think it's possible that someone else had and recommended him.

    The GM is ultimately responsible but he's got a crew of people working for him and advising him.

  2. #182
    Senior Member Triple-A DocBauer's Avatar
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    1) very much disagree with Gardy not liking Santana. He gave the kid strong props in ST for ability and potential. He's also stuck him in the lineup while he's been up which I honestly had real doubts would happen. And the only negative he's stated recently was a simple matter of fact that the kid is still raw and needs more development. How is that not liking the young man?

    2) going back over several posts now, rehashing some of the same old arguments, despite some good moves made, the FO blew the OF picture. I am going to disagree that the Twins should have "planned" to lose their entire starting OF in the first month, or that they had plent of time between injuries to act and figure it out. There is not a team out there, I'd wager an adult beverage or 2 or even 6, that starts the season by saying: "Ok, how do we look a month in if our 1B and entire OF all are hurt at once?

    That being said, I will repeat the Twins FO blew the OF situation this off season. Don't know now, didnt know then, what Hicks was going to bring to the table other than lots of talent and hope and a reportedly hard working off season. And he has looked better. But that's fuzzy logic to hang your hat on. I'm not bothered by the whole Presley situation as it played out. What I AM bothered about was the unknown in Hicks, a journeyman who played ok for you the last month of the season, and Mastro a still recovering shadow of the solid, useful player it looked like he might become.

    Thats your CF options on a ML team going in to ST and a season??? I'm not saying spend big bucks on a FA with Buxton on his way. I'm not saying trade a top prospect or two for a top flight starting CF. And I'm sure there might actually be a player or two who MIGHT turn down the Twins with Buxton up in a year or two. MIGHT. Through FA and trade there were options out there to lend better options and depth to the OF in general, and CF specifically. And so what if you would have to sweeten the pot with an extra throw in milb prospect, or toss a little more $ toward a FA to make the move. You had/have the prospects and $ to make the move without suffering.

    THIS is the one move they blew.

    3) Guerrier has had a very solid career. A "meh" signing for depth that cost the Twins nothing but a small contract. I have no excitement with his call up or a problem with it. With Deduno sliding in to the rotation, there is an opening for someone. While I personally have hopes for Darnell, and am very pleased he's choosing now at AAA to have his best season to date, I don't really want him sitting on the bullpen bench when he could continue to refine himself in the Rochester rotation, for now. Pino would honestly, probably, be the best call. Neither he nor Guerrier offer much long term, though Pino is younger. But it's not like they sent out the young, talented, "part of our future and has proven himself" Tonkin for Guerrier to get this shot. There was a deadline to make a decision, the Twins decided to call him up and see if there was anything there.

    Now, if he doesn't show something and they stick with him, NOW we have a problem.

    4) please tell me that with even a little more consistency in the next few weeks we can drop back down to a 12 man staff? With the moves made this off season, this just shouldn't be a problem. Surely the baseball gods will allow this to level out a bit.

    5) I do agree with Gardy being too loyal to favorite vets in the past. But he and the FO are moving past that I believe. Not as fast as I would like, but I'm noticing less tolerance, less patience by the club this season in regard to moves. Yes Bartlett was a crazy, ridiculous hope and prayer. But he wasn't going to last but a day or two longer anyway before the roster move and retirement. The writing was on the wall. Say what you want about moves seeming obvious, but Pelfrey was shipped out rather quickly. And while Florimon should have gone 2 weeks ago, he is gone. And even during the last couple of weeks, he was being weeded out.

    6) which works with #5 a bit, injuries or not, the Twins have been doing a much better job of letting the kids play. Gibson in the rotation, Tonkin brought up right away, Thielbar kept, Hicks (good or bad debatable) continuing to get his shot, Pinto up and staying up and in the lineup, Escobar finally getting real playing time to see what he's got, Arcia in the starting lineup when healthy, and even Santana being brought up and actually getting a chance to play.

    7) Soooo tired of the 3rd C debate. Once again, how many times in a season could you possibly be in a situation where you'd lose the DH to remove an injured starting C from the game? Once a season at most? Once every other season maybe? The only reason for a third C, which I rather like, is when one of them is either a primary DH who can C if needed, or is a decent bat, versatile utility type player. Think Herrman if he can learn to hit on a more consistent basis. Otherwise, drop it already and keep a better all around bench player on hand.

    Lastly, despite my blasting the FO for the botched CF situation, I have to say that Hicks, Arcia, Mauer all back and Fuld hopefully in a week, Escobar getting his shot, Nunez healthy and getting a shot, and Santana up and actually being allowed to play, combined with the rest of the roster as constructed now, actual pleases me.

  3. #183
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    Buxton can shake off the rust up in Minnie just like he can in NB or FM; what are we afraid of? The guy is a man has a child, give him some room to grow; what if he hits 260 up in the bigs, better than what we got now....

  4. #184
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatG View Post
    Buxton can shake off the rust up in Minnie just like he can in NB or FM; what are we afraid of? The guy is a man has a child, give him some room to grow; what if he hits 260 up in the bigs, better than what we got now....
    See Gomez, Carlos. You don't want to mess with that.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  5. #185
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmathewson View Post
    See Gomez, Carlos. You don't want to mess with that.
    Yep.

    I can't put into words how bad an idea it is to let a 20 year old kid "shake off the rust" in MLB games when he's never played a game above high A.

  6. #186
    Senior Member All-Star JB_Iowa's Avatar
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    I'm a little puzzled why anyone thought that the Twins could count on Willingham for all or most of the season.

    Hoped? Maybe. Depended on? Nope.

    Some of the injury situation is misjudging players. I just don't find Willingham being out to be surprising at all. Fuld & Hicks? Yes, those were unpredictable. Kubel? If anything, I'm surprised he has stayed healthy thus far.

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  8. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB_Iowa View Post
    I'm a little puzzled why anyone thought that the Twins could count on Willingham for all or most of the season.

    Hoped? Maybe. Depended on? Nope.

    Some of the injury situation is misjudging players. I just don't find Willingham being out to be surprising at all. Fuld & Hicks? Yes, those were unpredictable. Kubel? If anything, I'm surprised he has stayed healthy thus far.
    Well add this one to your list: Oswaldo Arcia. I'm afraid we are seeing something more than some "bad luck" on the injury front. He's been dinged up the majority of his big league career, although I don't know what his track record was in the minors regarding trips to the DL.

    Guys like this kill your roster because they frequently need a couple of days but you really can't DL them. So, you play short.

  9. #188
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    Right, JB. The need for a backup plan for older players (or bad young players) is higher than it is for others. Kubel is already showing signs of wearing out, imo.
    Lighten up Francis....

  10. #189
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linus View Post
    Well add this one to your list: Oswaldo Arcia. I'm afraid we are seeing something more than some "bad luck" on the injury front. He's been dinged up the majority of his big league career, although I don't know what his track record was in the minors regarding trips to the DL.
    I think it's too early to say such things about Arcia. Both of his injuries has been wrist-related.

    Wrist injuries are a bitch and sometimes, they take a long time to fully heal.

    Remember, JJ Hardy was a chronic DL player... Until he wasn't and played 317 games in two seasons for Baltimore.

  11. #190
    Senior Member All-Star cmathewson's Avatar
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    I hate discussions of random things like injuries. Willingham broke his wrist on a high hard one. Hardly anything anyone could predict.
    "If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

  12. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    I think it's too early to say such things about Arcia. Both of his injuries has been wrist-related.

    Wrist injuries are a bitch and sometimes, they take a long time to fully heal.

    Remember, JJ Hardy was a chronic DL player... Until he wasn't and played 317 games in two seasons for Baltimore.
    Yeah, I realize its been a short time but he's been dinged up more than just the wrists. He sat out the last of the season with a bruised knee and had a couple other hangnails. I hope I am wrong but its been often enough to be noticed. These type of players are murder for Gardy because he seems a lot more inclined to "give a guy a day" than to tell him to play. While I've never bought into the whole "Twins medical staff is at fault for injuries" meme, I do think they've been caught up in having guys miss multiple days without DLing them only to have it linger for too long before they finally DL them. I was impressed how quickly they moved on Arcia and Willingham at the beginning of the year and was clearly the right decision.

  13. #192
    Senior Member All-Star Hosken Bombo Disco's Avatar
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    This is not directed to anyone specific, but back to Ashbury's point (somewhere in the threads): the 40 man roster is plenty big enough to deal with injury contingencies. "Injuries" is not some exotic thing that suddenly started happening to the Twins and Twins only.

    In fact, the Twins are probably among the healthiest teams in the league. Their starting lineup has remained intact all year. Only the 7-8 holes (center field & Arcia) have really been affected and none of their key pitchers yet. It would really be questionable to pin this roster mismanagement on injuries.

  14. #193
    Why does everyone give Ryan a pass and blame everyone else in the front office. Wasn't the lack of center fielder a problem last year and Ryan was around the whole year. As far as Gardy's having influence, wasn't it Ryan who brought him back after 3 years of 90 losses.

    It's good to see we dropped another CF prospect for the 40 man roster for another player who can't move and we'll put him in the outfield. At least the FO is consistent.

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  16. #194
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    So Wilson was waived.

    My brain hurts. What do they have against putting outfielders on the 40 man roster?

  17. #195
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    So Wilson was waived.

    My brain hurts. What do they have against putting outfielders on the 40 man roster?
    Putting CF next to a player's name does not make him a candidate for center field.

  18. #196
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    I just want to point out a few obvious things.

    1. depth management is as important as roster construction this time of year which is why the best players are not called up right now. We need to make sure we keep as many assets as we can in case of injury...

    2. With a few breaks we could actually be competitive this year. when Meyer comes up and if Deduno pitches well then we could end up with an average to slightly above average rotation. and Detroit has an ineffective bullpen so if Guerrier is a FA cause we don't call him up I bet he goes there and pitches with Nathan out of their pen. We can just as easily hold on to him and we have trade leverage.

    3. Our tradeable pieces are adding up Corriea, Pelfry, several bullpen arms, Parmelee, Willingham, and Kubel. We could really add to our minor league depth this trade deadline.

    4. The Twins tend to keep an eye on other teams pretty well. I wonder if they were planning to get Fuld from the get go. Pressley really looked bad in spring training.
    I agree with 1...

  19. #197
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hosken Bombo Disco View Post
    This is not directed to anyone specific, but back to Ashbury's point (somewhere in the threads): the 40 man roster is plenty big enough to deal with injury contingencies. "Injuries" is not some exotic thing that suddenly started happening to the Twins and Twins only.

    In fact, the Twins are probably among the healthiest teams in the league. Their starting lineup has remained intact all year. Only the 7-8 holes (center field & Arcia) have really been affected and none of their key pitchers yet. It would really be questionable to pin this roster mismanagement on injuries.
    Well, as of yesterday they had three of their Opening Day outfielders on the DL. That's pretty significant.

    It's something they should have been able to overcome by scraping together a make-shift lineup for two days but it's still significant.

  20. #198
    Senior Member All-Star Sconnie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Putting CF next to a player's name does not make him a candidate for center field.
    It makes him a lot closer than Escobar or Bartlett

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  22. #199
    Owner MVP Brock Beauchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashburyjohn View Post
    Putting CF next to a player's name does not make him a candidate for center field.
    Is that directed at Wilson? According to what I've read, he's quite good in the field.

  23. #200
    Twins Moderator MVP ashburyjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp View Post
    Is that directed at Wilson? According to what I've read, he's quite good in the field.
    Yes, Wilson, and no, no quarrel with the glove. I failed to find a way to state that "center field" involves coming to bat against major league pitchers. You don't simply look to see if someone has CF next to his name and say, "OK, we're good then".

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